Great ‘Bit On The Side’ Hunt

jan.moss

aliwatts wrote:

Hi,

I agree with Tim, I have heard so many bad reports about these types of schemes and would agree with Tim, they should be avoided like the plague !!!

As long as I have explained the difference between pyramid selling (what Tim is talking about) and network marketing (basically giving people a chance to set up their own business) then I'm happy!

Tim_L

So, why not explain precisely what this scheme sells? The website hardly makes it explicit, but presumably it's herbal remedies (the original snake oil!).

I do wonder whether Dell et al would be thrilled at having their names used to promote a pyramid based MLM scheme too... Shall I contact their press officer and ask?

And explain this. How does having a network of middlemen (err, sorry, distributors) "cut out the middleman" and reduce costs, as your site claims? Sounds to me as if what it actually does is introduce overhead without introducing any value at all, as the amount of commission payable on any item is dependant completely on the length of the upline - anathema to any real sales professionals who strive to remove overhead and maximise value. But of course it provides layer upon layer of people paying money up the pyramid to the lucky few at the top. And that is the point, isn't it, Jan?

These schemes are really pretty odious. They sell a dream of "firing the boss", but what they substitute is essentially slave labour for the benefit of a cynical few who understand how the game works - very very few people working MLM schemes make any money, even from the more reputable ones such as Kleneze. The rhetoric used to sell this scheme is straight out of the MLM/Pyramid manual, full of empowerment mumbo jumbo and assurance that this is not a pyramid (the classic danger sign!).

So don't be fooled. If you want to work for yourself, find something you know how to do, take advice from Business Link, and do it properly. Don't fall for the idea of selling silly tat for the benefit of other people in a sales pyramid.

jan.moss

Hi Tim, the site clearly shows what the products are... you can buy them online via the shop!

You state "But of course it provides layer upon layer of people paying money up the pyramid to the lucky few at the top." No that's not true, the company pays a bonus to the distributors, each distributor buys direct from the company at the same price.

"I do wonder whether Dell et al would be thrilled at having their names used to promote a pyramid based MLM scheme too... Shall I contact their press officer and ask?" Please do!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just a distributor at the moment. I don't have a team and am earning money by selling the products, which in my opinion, are first-rate.

Out of interest, I ran my own business for 13 years before this.

You would perhaps best speak direct to the company to clarify things further as I am only an independent distributor for the products and not a member of the company am therefore not qualified to speak on their behalf.

I would be delighted to send you some samples if you were prepared to try them.

Can you tell me that advertising adds worth to a product, or a wholesaler?

Jan

Tim_L

I have written to contacts at Dell and Virgin to tell them of your use of their trading name as part of a promotion by association of your pyramid scheme. So we'll see what happens, won't we?

It's not difficult to find useful insights into "Forever Living" and their business model.

For example:

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/Forever%20Living.htm

and see also:

http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/mlm_evaluations.htm

The conclusion of this analysis is that recruitment is a larger part of the business than sales of the products.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general546.html

Is quite revealing too.

Also quite amusing to look for "forever living" at Ebay, where you'll find a mixture of "distributors" trying desperately to flog product and to recruit new members.

And there's quite a good discussion on this site too:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=61284&page=2

Ted Hutchinson makes the points pretty well; one of the Forever Living advocates even pulls out the classic pyramid argument that "all companies are arranged as pyramids" (a classic red flag in itself - usually combined with "pyramids are the strongest structures known to man"). And which is of course rubbish: companies tend to arrange themselves as hierarchies, but they do not require subordinate levels of the organisation to pay money up to the higher levels, and they do not require subordinate levels to recruite ad infinitum as part of the business model. It's a perversion of the truth to claim any link between a pyramid based MLM and a traditional business: the aim of the first is to create as large a network as possible to channel money from members to the upline; the second aims to minimise overhead and maximise return on sales.

Face facts, Jan, you are peddling a pyramid scheme. You found a board which is discussing ways of finding additional income and you were rubbing your hands in glee at finding a new recruitment stream, because that is how you make money from "Forever Living" (if you make money at all).

But you have chosen the wrong board to do it, because extremely financially savvy people hang out here, and we will call your bluff at every opportunity. And please don't tell me that you have not set your site up to recruit people, when it is 90% about promoting the "Forever Living" network and why it is a good idea to join it, and 10% (if that) about the actual products!

jan.moss

I'm sure you know best Tim!

I have done my best to explain MLM as i understand it.

The question asked originally was "how do you make money in your spare time?" I answered that question.

As I said before, you would perhaps best speak direct to the company to clarify things further as I am only an independent distributor for the products and not a member of the company am therefore not qualified to speak on their behalf.

Jan

Tim_L

Probably if you are not qualified to make claims on behalf of "Forever Living" you should remove all that glossy recruitment and recommendation bumph from your website? Just a thought - it would be a shame to give bad advice on a subject you admit to being completely ignorant of.

But I'm interested. Given that you were running a business before (perhaps you could tell us what this was?) and presumably make a living from being a distributor or else it would hardly have been worth abandoning one enterprise in favour of this new one. Given there are costs involved, you must be turning over a hell of a lot of cactus health products? (Presumably you are VAT registered given the volume of sales necessary). So why don't you give us an idea of your turnover, costs, stocking level requirements and capital employed to get up to the sales levels you are claiming? And just how are you turning over thousands of pounds worth of "health supplements" without a "team"?



I think we should be told.

Tony_H_3

Whilst this discussion is interesting this is not the place for it. The Abuse Controller has addressed the issue of "Advertising" by removing the website link, now I think we should keep this thread on topic: Great bit on the side hunt.

Click Here & post a new thread if you wish to discuss this further. I will add a direct link HERE to the new thread if one is created.

Kindest Regards
Tony H
Board Guide - Budgeting & Current Accounts

halloweenqueen_2

Any decent work from home jobs anywhere?!

System

I design adult affiliate websites :eek: , when your good at it, its and easy $1500 a month, ok im only half way there but its do able and work from home, at any time you feel like.

sondheimsoc

If anyone lives in Nottingham and is interested in doing market research projects, I am always looking for people. For attending a discussion you usually receive £30 or so for an hour and a half discussion; rates vary according to the client and the project.
If you live elsewhere, I do know recruiters in other areas and could possibly put you in touch with someone.
Lynne