Private school fees (merged)

borntobefree

benood wrote: »

with 25% disruptive chavs (for want of a better word).

So by taking children out to private schools you increase the dross ratio for the ones who remain - furthermore you also remove their parents who would make good pta/governors.

And TBH this is why I would not send my kids into the private sector as I would do not want them to mix with people who hold these sorts of views. Referring to other people in this derogatory manner is totally unacceptable, in my view. It also is a stereotype and does not reflect the reality of the state sector. Since your basis for choosing a private school is very obviously coloured by "snobbery" & ignorance how can you in fact be sure that you are getting value for money?

benood

3plus1 wrote: »

Excuse me, but you seem to have got the impression that all kids at private schools are clever little darlings who all behave well? No. You're wrong. You get the clever kids; half of them from rich families, half of them from families who scrimp and save to get them there. You also get the stupid, lazy kids who are don't do a stitch of work and fail all their exams, but are at private school simply because their parents are rich.

Private schools have their fair share of troublemakers too, you know!

And I do agree that if people stopped sending their children to private schools, the state system would collapse.

Private schools have troublemakers sure but at a completely different level and less than their "fair share", a "stupid, lazy kid" isn't necessarily disruptive. What's more private schools can expel troublemakers! So I'm afraid you're wrong.

If people instantly stopped using private schools without any other change yes the state system would collapse under the pressure but that is a meaningless statement. If state schools had more pushy parents using them then standards would improve IMO.

benood

borntobefree wrote: »

And TBH this is why I would not send my kids into the private sector as I would do not want them to mix with people who hold these sorts of views. Referring to other people in this derogatory manner is totally unacceptable, in my view. It also is a stereotype and does not reflect the reality of the state sector. Since your basis for choosing a private school is very obviously coloured by "snobbery" & ignorance how can you in fact be sure that you are getting value for money?

I'm sorry you can only attack how I worded my argument rather than the substance of it. Trying to close the debate down again?

I think if you think about my posts you will see that I don't think the current set up is perfect - ideally private schools would not exist, it is you who is blinkered in refusing to see that they do provide better outcomes on average for their pupils - I suggest a main reason for this is that because parents, school and pupils are all more focussed on tangible results than in the state sector.

autismmum

my son gets a private schooling on a budget, 7 in his calss one to one help, and enjoys a yearly camping trip...... .firstcollege. yearly fees are only 2,000 students all over the world

Voyager2002

natalie1974 wrote: »

Yes they are . My DD1's school has 100% pass rate on the 11+ , most of the local state schools have approx 10 kids out of 60-70 that pass . All I know is that education wise I am giving her and will give DD2 as well , the best start in life educationally .

A dubious use of statistics. How many children at DD1's school end up not taking the 11 plus? (I'm sure that many of them aim at independent secondary schools rather than local grammar schools.) As for the local state schools, perhaps most of their pupils are content to go on to comprehensive schools in the region. Unless you are sure that the "pass" rates from the different schools are calculated on exactly the same basis (unlikely) you cannot make such comparisons.

And I refuse to believe that intensive training to pass an exam at 11 is anything like "the best start in life educationally". My son failed the 11 plus, and now at 15 he has been selected as "gifted and talented" in the sciences, and is predicted to get A star grades in most of his GCSEs. The comprehensive that he attends has a good track record of academic success, so their predictions are likely to resemble reality. I doubt if he could have done so well had he been subjected to years of "teaching for the test" and so had his natural curiosity and spirit of independent enquiry stifled.

Dick_here

If private school is good enough for (example) Prince William then it's good enough for my son. Why should I accept anything less ?

Lunar_Eclipse

Voyager2002 wrote: »

I doubt if he could have done so well had he been subjected to years of "teaching for the test"

Well, that is exactly what the state sector does IMO. The private sector tailor this towards the tests that count (ie at 16 and 18) and pay little regard COMPARATIVELY to those done at 7, 11 and 14 in good state schools. It is a joke how much testing there is in state schools now. My daughter (age 8, year 3) has multiple tests every week. I accept that weekly spellings and times tables are done in most schools, but she also has 2 other maths tests and a verbal reasoning test every week. There may be more, I pay little attention to tests, but most days there is a 'test' of some description, the results of which go in her school file. I was surprised when I saw it at her last parents evening. I'm very happy with the school, so accept that this is how 'the best (state) schools' now operate. Anyhow, those who do not score highly (ie putting the school at risk for Key Stage 2 results in 3 years time!) do them again and again until the results improve. Sometimes this means they miss morning break. Can we simply not allow them to be average academically, or below average? It's just ridiculous. IMO.

What I really dislike about schooling these days is the time spent on worksheets (most Literacy & Numeracy from what I have seen so far) and tests. Whilst efficient (and perhaps more interesting than my memory of Maths lessons), it shows a real lack of creativity and spontainaity in teaching. I suspect many teachers feel frustrated by this also.

natalie1974

Voyager2002 wrote: »

A dubious use of statistics. How many children at DD1's school end up not taking the 11 plus? (I'm sure that many of them aim at independent secondary schools rather than local grammar schools.) As for the local state schools, perhaps most of their pupils are content to go on to comprehensive schools in the region. Unless you are sure that the "pass" rates from the different schools are calculated on exactly the same basis (unlikely) you cannot make such comparisons.

And I refuse to believe that intensive training to pass an exam at 11 is anything like "the best start in life educationally". My son failed the 11 plus, and now at 15 he has been selected as "gifted and talented" in the sciences, and is predicted to get A star grades in most of his GCSEs. The comprehensive that he attends has a good track record of academic success, so their predictions are likely to resemble reality. I doubt if he could have done so well had he been subjected to years of "teaching for the test" and so had his natural curiosity and spirit of independent enquiry stifled.

Every single child in Year 6 takes the 11+ , the option not to take it is not given to the children , maximum of 36 kids split over 2 classes . They are not intensively trained for the 11+ , they just learn so much more as the class sizes are smaller and they get more work done . And the majority of the kids go onto the local grammar schools , only a minority then go onto the other private schools in the area . I know that many of the state schools in the area do not put 100% of pupils into the 11+ test so again that shows just how low the local area pass rate is . Tell me where in the state school system is my DD1 going to get a class size of 10 , that's all she has in her class . People are getting fed up with the state school system , this is fairly evident from the numbers they have on their books now , 4 years ago Year 6 had 3 in one class and 4 in the other class . Now they are up to the 18 per class limit . One of the other local private schools has a 4 year waiting list , another a 2 year waiting list . My daughters school has a waiting list of 1 year . The children that may start in the Juniors (Year 3) have been taken out of the state school sector as their parents are not happy with it . My daughters class only had 8 in it until the last 5 months when 2 children have started and they were placed in the school as their parents are just not happy with such large class sizes and the standard of education they were receiving at the local state schools .

I would be happy to send my daughters to a states school if there were any in my area that were any good , but there isn't any . My daughter has not had her "natural curiosity" or "spirit of independence" stifled , far from it , she is a well rounded , level headed , very independent 8 year old .

emsywoo123

Seeing as we have wildly veered away from the OP's question, and there seems little liklihood that we will get back to it, I thought I would mention class sizes again.
Local primary schools have between 28-30 in their class. My daughters class has now been declared "full" with 11. They have 1 teacher and 1 classroom assistant, full time. To my mind, alot of my fees go on keeping the numbers down, which for my daughter is a real neccessity for her to achieve.

Lunar_Eclipse

natalie1974 wrote: »

Every single child in Year 6 takes the 11+ , the option not to take it is not given to the children , maximum of 36 kids split over 2 classes . They are not intensively trained for the 11+ , they just learn so much more as the class sizes are smaller and they get more work done . And the majority of the kids go onto the local grammar schools , only a minority then go onto the other private schools in the area . I know that many of the state schools in the area do not put 100% of pupils into the 11+ test so again that shows just how low the local area pass rate is . Tell me where in the state school system is my DD1 going to get a class size of 10 , that's all she has in her class . People are getting fed up with the state school system , this is fairly evident from the numbers they have on their books now , 4 years ago Year 6 had 3 in one class and 4 in the other class . Now they are up to the 18 per class limit . One of the other local private schools has a 4 year waiting list , another a 2 year waiting list . My daughters school has a waiting list of 1 year . The children that may start in the Juniors (Year 3) have been taken out of the state school sector as their parents are not happy with it . My daughters class only had 8 in it until the last 5 months when 2 children have started and they were placed in the school as their parents are just not happy with such large class sizes and the standard of education they were receiving at the local state schools .

I would be happy to send my daughters to a states school if there were any in my area that were any good , but there isn't any . My daughter has not had her "natural curiosity" or "spirit of independence" stifled , far from it , she is a well rounded , level headed , very independent 8 year old .

I would be slightly worried about the potential for a child's social skill development in a class size of 10. That is very small. Especially if it was a mixed school, although I doubt it.

Apparantly (I looked into it last week) there is no correlation between academic success and class size. In fact, larger class sizes (28+) have been shown to product better Literacy results in Year 6 specifically. I'm not sure whether I actually believe this, but there are 34 in my 8 year olds class (which gut feel says is too many) so I decided to see what information was available about the benefits of a class of say 24 (common in private schools for years 3-6.) All the data I found online told me I shouldn't worry.