Private school fees (merged)

borntobefree

benood wrote: »

I'm sorry you can only attack how I worded my argument rather than the substance of it. Trying to close the debate down again?

I think if you think about my posts you will see that I don't think the current set up is perfect - ideally private schools would not exist, it is you who is blinkered in refusing to see that they do provide better outcomes on average for their pupils - I suggest a main reason for this is that because parents, school and pupils are all more focussed on tangible results than in the state sector.

I don't know why you think I am trying to close the debate down? I am not blinkered. All the research shows that pupils with supportive parents will achieve the same outcome in either sector. So I can't understand why you would pay good money for an outcome which is exactly the same, that's all? You seem to justify sending your children to private school on the basis that you did not want them to be in a class with "badly behaved chavs", I merely pointed that this was abit of a stereotype that isn't based on reality (and furthermore is offensive) .

natalie1974

borntobefree wrote: »

I don't know why you think I am trying to close the debate down? I am not blinkered. All the research shows that pupils with supportive parents will achieve the same outcome in either sector. So I can't understand why you would pay good money for an outcome which is exactly the same, that's all? You seem to justify sending your children to private school on the basis that you did not want them to be in a class with "badly behaved chavs", I merely pointed that this was abit of a stereotype that isn't based on reality (and furthermore is offensive) .

Kids will be kids and they will be naughty regardless if they are state or privately educated .

borntobefree

emsywoo123 wrote: »

Seeing as we have wildly veered away from the OP's question, and there seems little liklihood that we will get back to it, I thought I would mention class sizes again.
Local primary schools have between 28-30 in their class. My daughters class has now been declared "full" with 11. They have 1 teacher and 1 classroom assistant, full time. To my mind, alot of my fees go on keeping the numbers down, which for my daughter is a real neccessity for her to achieve.

There is alot of evidence that has shown that there is no link betwen academic outcomes and class sizes. So I'm not sure that this makes it worth the money?

emsywoo123

borntobefree wrote: »

I don't know why you think I am trying to close the debate down? I am not blinkered. All the research shows that pupils with supportive parents will achieve the same outcome in either sector. So I can't understand why you would pay good money for an outcome which is exactly the same, that's all? You seem to justify sending your children to private school on the basis that you did not want them to be in a class with "badly behaved chavs", I merely pointed that this was abit of a stereotype that isn't based on reality (and furthermore is offensive) .

I do agree with BTBF that the "chavs" comment was not required, but really, what has this thread turned into? No one who supoprts the private system initiated complaints against the state system, and yet apparently the implication is that we are in the wrong to pay for our childrens education. We believe it is the right thing to do for our children. We believe they get more from private education.

emsywoo123

borntobefree wrote: »

There is alot of evidence that has shown that there is no link betwen academic outcomes and class sizes. So I'm not sure that this makes it worth the money?

I have never said that I am paying the money for the academic outcome. If you bothered reading my posts instead of jumping in with your preconceptions, then you might understand my perspective:mad:

tomstickland

borntobefree wrote: »

And TBH this is why I would not send my kids into the private sector as I would do not want them to mix with people who hold these sorts of views. Referring to other people in this derogatory manner is totally unacceptable, in my view. It also is a stereotype and does not reflect the reality of the state sector. Since your basis for choosing a private school is very obviously coloured by "snobbery" & ignorance how can you in fact be sure that you are getting value for money?

So, in reality, there are no dross anywhere?

There is alot of evidence that has shown that there is no link betwen academic outcomes and class sizes.

Why do private schools place such an emphassis on this then? Is it marketing rubbish, or parents' expectations?
Why do people value one-to-one tuition so highly?
Personally I'd expect that in a class of 10 versus a class of 40 that the former would allow more attention to be given to those who are struggling with a concept. It would allow more feedback.
Do you have any links to this evidence?

thanksalot

natalie1974 wrote: »

Did I say all were academic and all need to go to grammar schools ? All I said was that my daughters school has a 100% pass rate and the majority of the kids that go there go onto grammar schools . My daughters well being is fine thank you , she does not suffer in any way whatsoever , she is a normal 8 year old girl who plays and has fun , she is not locked to a desk 24/7 . She does a variety of after school activities and I for one would not push any of my daughters into university , at the age of 16 they both can do what they want . Are people really of the opinion that kids who go to private schools are not allowed to do anything

If you say that the reason your child goes there is because of the 100% pass rate at the 11+, then I would say that some of the children in the school are pushed beyond their natural abilities.
the 11+ was intented to pick the top 20%. Not 100% ; so I wonder how on earth they achieve that kind if result is not by concentrating on exam techniques rather than letting them be children.

Lunar_Eclipse

borntobefree wrote: »

All the research shows that pupils with supportive parents will achieve the same outcome in either sector. .

I agree that this is the most important factor in a child's overall education/upbringing.

And whilst this is what comforts me when thinking about the financial reality of private schooling for my children, this 'truth' is (only) for academic achievement outcome. Not overall (whole person) outcome. It is all the extras that one pays for in the private sector.

Although I actually thought the outcome is the same for the most able and least able. I thought research showed private schools benefit those in the middle (of the bell curve) academically speaking. Semantic difference I am aware.

Lunar_Eclipse

borntobefree wrote: »

There is alot of evidence that has shown that there is no link betwen academic outcomes and class sizes. So I'm not sure that this makes it worth the money?

Maybe because you believe education is primarily about results ('academic outcomes')?

borntobefree

emsywoo123 wrote: »

and yet apparently the implication is that we are in the wrong to pay for our childrens education.

Personally, I was never arguing it was wrong, just questioning whether it was worth the money.