PPI Reclaiming discussion Part II

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Dreamer, I would now ask for a copy of your insurance document and make a complaint to the actual INSURERS here.... please read the above... so exicited for you... complaints against insurers come under compulsary jurisidiction...
complaint upheld
It was up to the insurer to prove that the policy had been properly sold and that the sale complied with the provisions of the ABI Code.


It may be your breakthrough here...

Yes I agree with you Marshallka, I do think Dreamer will have a stronger chance doing it this way, at least if the insurers came under jurisdiction, I would go for it.;)

I am really not sure on my Endeavour one now though, as that is in with the FOS and not really sure if it was unfair or not now its baffling, but if it was and the FOS are not likely now to look at it, I will not hesitate but to go to the insurers who did come under jurisdiction here.
Its that option that we now know about.;)

marshallka

From the Ombudsman News here in October. 2008


PPI mis-sales – should redress take benefit of cover into account?

I am dealing with a customer’s complaint about payment protection insurance that we sold in similar circumstances to those of Mr and Mrs J, outlined in issue 71 of ombudsman news (case 71/02).

I understand why the ombudsman upheld that complaint. However, it seems that the redress ordered did not take account of the fact that Mr and Mrs J had had the benefit of cover under the policy for a period. I would be interested in your comments on this.
a lender firm asks …

Our approach to redress for the mis-sale of payment protection insurance (PPI) policies is broadly that the consumer should be put back in the position they would have been in, if the mis-sale had not taken place. In most circumstances, where someone selling an insurance policy has failed to point out significant relevant features, the buyer can, in law, decide to cancel the policy and be returned to the position they were in before the sale.
We take a similar view. We frequently provide for consumers to get back the premium, plus any other amounts they have paid (such as interest on loans to cover the cost of the premium).
In most of our work on PPI mis-sales, we can see that the consumer would not have bought the policy, had relevant features been pointed out. This was the position in the case of Mr and Mrs J, in case 71/02 in the previous issue of ombudsman news.

marshallka

I know I am posting a lot but its for my benefit also here as well as people on this site

4 The ‘eight former complaint-handling schemes’ were:
five ombudsman schemes – the Banking, Building Societies, Insurance, Investment and Personal Investment Authority Ombudsman Schemes;
three other schemes – the Financial Services Authority’s Complaints Investigator, the Securities and Futures Authority Complaints Bureau and the Personal Insurance Arbitration Service.

[FONT=KHIJMM+Arial,Arial]5 [/FONT][FONT=KHIJMM+Arial,Arial][FONT=KHIJMM+Arial,Arial]For firms that become FSA-regulated from some later date, this will apply to events before the date they become FSA-regulated. [/FONT][/FONT]


http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/vj/ej_feedback_dec02.pdf

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+2]some jurisdiction issues in insurance cases[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service (the matters we can and cannot look into) is defined in the rules under which we operate. These rules are made (or approved by) the Financial Services Authority (FSA) and published in its Handbook of rules and guidance in the section, Dispute resolution: Complaints (DISP). [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Our jurisdiction is a broad one – but not quite as broad as some consumers believe. We do sometimes have to explain that we are unable to deal with a particular complaint – often because the firm concerned is not regulated. When we are unable to deal with an insurance case, it can sometimes be because the consumer bringing the complaint to us is not the beneficiary of the insurance contract that is the subject of the dispute. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Firms are also sometimes mistaken about the extent of our jurisdiction. But unlike consumers, they generally tend to think it narrower than it actually is. They will sometimes try to argue that a case is outside our jurisdiction when, in fact, it is not.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Insurance firms occasionally try to insist that we cannot look at complaints about underwriting matters, or where legal proceedings have been issued. These misconceptions are a legacy from the past. The Terms of Reference of one of our predecessors, the Insurance Ombudsman Bureau, precluded such cases. However, the FSA rules give us wider powers and such cases are not outside our jurisdiction. They are, however, among the types of cases that we can, under the rules, decline to deal with. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Two areas in particular that can give rise to more problematic jurisdiction issues are:[/SIZE][/FONT]

<LI class=arbody>

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]cases that involve group policies; and [/SIZE][/FONT]
[*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]commercial cases (where the event being complained about happened before the Financial Ombudsman Service gained its statutory powers on 1 December 2001).[/SIZE][/FONT]

di3004

Nipping out to see the parents, back soon folks.:D xx

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Dreamer, I would now ask for a copy of your insurance document and make a complaint to the actual INSURERS here.... please read the above... so exicited for you... complaints against insurers come under compulsary jurisidiction...
complaint upheld
It was up to the insurer to prove that the policy had been properly sold and that the sale complied with the provisions of the ABI Code.


It may be your breakthrough here...

Apparently I dont get a document the funds are in a big "pool".

Just reading the back of PPI leaflet given by firstplus it states:

Understanding your cover

If after purchasing the cover you are not happy simply return your insurance docs within 30 days of receipt and all cover will be cancelled without charge. (I did not get any docs)

Firstplus fin group plc is a member of the GISC and acts as an intermediary for the insurers in arranging the ppi policy, which is the only policy that it offers to provide cover for the first 60 months on its secured loans.

GISC is an independent organisation which regulates the sales, advisory and service standards of its members to make sure the general insurance customers are treated fairly. When you buy insurance from firstplus, you will benefit from the protection of the GISC private customer code.

The insurance is underwritten 100% by the Cassidy Davis insurance griup division of Lloyds syndicate 5000 and BJ Jackson and others syndicate 779 the insurers are not members of the GISC.

LAW

Whilst the parties to this insurance arre free to choose the law applicable to it, the insurers propose that this agreement shall be governed by English Law.

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Apparently I dont get a document the funds are in a big "pool".

Just reading the back of PPI leaflet given by firstplus it states:

Understanding your cover

If after purchasing the cover you are not happy simply return your insurance docs within 30 days of receipt and all cover will be cancelled without charge. (I did not get any docs)

Firstplus fin group plc is a member of the GISC and acts as an intermediary for the insurers in arranging the ppi policy, which is the only policy that it offers to provide cover for the first 60 months on its secured loans.

GISC is an independent organisation which regulates the sales, advisory and service standards of its members to make sure the general insurance customers are treated fairly. When you buy insurance from firstplus, you will benefit from the protection of the GISC private customer code.

The insurance is underwritten 100% by the Cassidy Davis insurance griup division of Lloyds syndicate 5000 and BJ Jackson and others syndicate 779 the insurers are not members of the GISC.

LAW

Whilst the parties to this insurance arre free to choose the law applicable to it, the insurers propose that this agreement shall be governed by English Law.

Rigth, this is where I am at... i had my loan with Firstplus and went to the FOS for the unfair rebate that I received when settling the loan early... I sent in my complaint for the unfair rebate and then the other day the FOS told me I had to complain to the insurers for this. I hold a copy of my terms and conditions and these were sent to me with my SAR request so I do not have my actual documents as I did state in a telephone call to them back in 2003. The FOS asked me to email a copy of the policy details to them also state that this policy is not my original and it was sent in my sar which I have done. They also state that they are going to write to Firstplus on my behalf to ask who my insurers actually were as mine differ slightly to yours in that they say

this Insurance is underwritten by a consortium of Insurers. Their obligations are several and are not joint and are limited solely to the extent of their individual subscriptions. The subscribing Insurers are not responsible for the subscription of any co-subscribing Insurer who for any reason does not satisfy all or part of its obligations. The subscribing Insurers and their individual subscriptions are as follows.: 40% by AA Cassidy and Others, Syndicate 582 at Lloyds, 35% by SCOR UK Company Limited and 25% by Zurich Insurance Company (the names and proportions underwritten by Syndicate 582 can, opon application, be assertained by reference to the Master Policy number MIL2001 which bears the Seal of Lloyds Policy Signing Office.


When they receive a note back from Firstplus about this matter and who the insurers were they will then write to them on my behalf for a final response.. I will then be elegible to take this complaint to the FOS again....

I want to add if this complaint is against the insurers of the Firstplus cashback policy then I want to complain about their unfair contract term about cancelling the policy in that they say that the rebate will given not in proportion and rather under the use of the rule of 78 and also that there is not cancellation period at all on the policy...

I never received any documents either...

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Apparently I dont get a document the funds are in a big "pool".

Just reading the back of PPI leaflet given by firstplus it states:

Understanding your cover

If after purchasing the cover you are not happy simply return your insurance docs within 30 days of receipt and all cover will be cancelled without charge. (I did not get any docs)

Firstplus fin group plc is a member of the GISC and acts as an intermediary for the insurers in arranging the ppi policy, which is the only policy that it offers to provide cover for the first 60 months on its secured loans.

GISC is an independent organisation which regulates the sales, advisory and service standards of its members to make sure the general insurance customers are treated fairly. When you buy insurance from firstplus, you will benefit from the protection of the GISC private customer code.

The insurance is underwritten 100% by the Cassidy Davis insurance griup division of Lloyds syndicate 5000 and BJ Jackson and others syndicate 779 the insurers are not members of the GISC.

LAW

Whilst the parties to this insurance arre free to choose the law applicable to it, the insurers propose that this agreement shall be governed by English Law.

Reading that you may be able to make your complaint against Firstplus as they were members of the GISC at the time (November, 2001) but not against the misselling... you need to complain about the policy itself...


Was this document your own or sent to you???

If your insurer is a member of Lloyds, contact Lloyd's Complaints Department on 020 7327 5693. If you are not satisfied with the outcome of this complaint, you can then go on to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Rigth, this is where I am at... i had my loan with Firstplus and went to the FOS for the unfair rebate that I received when settling the loan early... I sent in my complaint for the unfair rebate and then the other day the FOS told me I had to complain to the insurers for this. I hold a copy of my terms and conditions and these were sent to me with my SAR request so I do not have my actual documents as I did state in a telephone call to them back in 2003. The FOS asked me to email a copy of the policy details to them also state that this policy is not my original and it was sent in my sar which I have done. They also state that they are going to write to Firstplus on my behalf to ask who my insurers actually were as mine differ slightly to yours in that they say

this Insurance is underwritten by a consortium of Insurers. Their obligations are several and are not joint and are limited solely to the extent of their individual subscriptions. The subscribing Insurers are not responsible for the subscription of any co-subscribing Insurer who for any reason does not satisfy all or part of its obligations. The subscribing Insurers and their individual subscriptions are as follows.: 40% by AA Cassidy and Others, Syndicate 582 at Lloyds, 35% by SCOR UK Company Limited and 25% by Zurich Insurance Company (the names and proportions underwritten by Syndicate 582 can, opon application, be assertained by reference to the Master Policy number MIL2001 which bears the Seal of Lloyds Policy Signing Office.


When they receive a note back from Firstplus about this matter and who the insurers were they will then write to them on my behalf for a final response.. I will then be elegible to take this complaint to the FOS again....

I want to add if this complaint is against the insurers of the Firstplus cashback policy then I want to complain about their unfair contract term about cancelling the policy in that they say that the rebate will given not in proportion and rather under the use of the rule of 78 and also that there is not cancellation period at all on the policy...

I never received any documents either...

I originally complained to firstplus who then said because freedom sold the ppi the complaint was with them, however have been reading this below:

9 Under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, there are circumstances where the supplier of credit may be equally liable with the supplier of the goods/services for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the supplier of the goods/services.

I don't understand what I need to say to the insurers as they didn't sell it, its was just with them?

If I don't win think am half way there to becomming a qualified lawyer :rotfl:

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

I originally complained to firstplus who then said because freedom sold the ppi the complaint was with them, however have been reading this below:

9 Under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, there are circumstances where the supplier of credit may be equally liable with the supplier of the goods/services for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the supplier of the goods/services.

I don't understand what I need to say to the insurers as they didn't sell it, its was just with them?

If I don't win think am half way there to becomming a qualified lawyer :rotfl:

Don't think section 75 applies here


We had someone on here very informative and posted this for us to all read

Re Sec 75 claims - this does not cover the Broker/Lender/Insurer relationship as some here seem to be trying to ascertain. Unless the broker is also an appointed rep of the lender - then its the brokers responsibility to comply with their own regulated requirements. When dealing with Brokers - bare in mind that they are YOUR agents and owe you a fiduciary duty.


I already tried that one with the FOS too....

FOS have had 6 complaints of mine apparently and each one has been thrown back and this advice as to complaining to the insurer was their advice and they are writing for me... I have quite a few complaints about the policy and something back is better than nothing...

UTCCR 1999

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Reading that you may be able to make your complaint against Firstplus as they were members of the GISC at the time (November, 2001) but not against the misselling... you need to complain about the policy itself...


Was this document your own or sent to you???

If your insurer is a member of Lloyds, contact Lloyd's Complaints Department on 020 7327 5693. If you are not satisfied with the outcome of this complaint, you can then go on to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

It was sent to me by firstplus once the agreement had been signed. As I have a letter from firstplus in my sar request dated 04/02/04 stating please find enclosed your copy of the executed credit agreement/legal charge, your guide to firstplus booklet and your payment protection /cashback cover details