NPOWER SCAMS featured on WATCHDOG 10/03/08, Email watchdog with complaints

yalisrib

The golden rule for eletricity and gas bills is to ALWAYS read the meter yourself - or get a friend to do it for you and send off the reading. I have picked myself up off the floor laughing as I have just read my gas bill. I pay £18 a month direct debit to Npower and every few months they send me an estimated bill for the remaing amount. June to September 2007 bill was £53 credit, September to date is apparently £197 debit - impressive for someone who lives on their own, uses jumpers instead of heating and has hot water on for an hour a day. I can't wait for them to caculate the correct bill!

Terrylw1

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

There is a point that the meters, associated time swiches and cut outs belong to the distribution company for your area, so in effect they were not part of deregulation, but the regulated distributuion network.

The NHHMOP side of de-reg went through the industry several years ago, years before the LDNO one which was a couple of years back. REMA will explain this for you as all Suppliers had to adjust to this.

Also, REMA introduced the ability for Suppliers to appoint any agent and no longer use the host PES ones from prior to de-reg. This was bought in because agents were charged without competition. This also meant Suppliers had less control of their agents as they could never leave them.

As for the costs, you have to weigh up the fact that Suppliers have co-ordinate data between so many agents that it's just not cost effective. Hence many Suppliers are trying to appoint fewer to have more control. So, it depends how you determine your costs.

Terrylw1

c0113tt3 wrote: »

Another point that is worth mentioning. It stated on watchdog, energy watch had informed them, that with all other energy suppliers apart from NPOWER complaints have been on a decline, but with NPOWER they had risen by 30%, so much so energy watch had referred them OFGEM. Again you have to ask why is this?

Is it because they are the only energy supplier that have staff / managers / senior managers / executive level, that dont have much of a clue of the energy business / procedures / management? Well they are German owned, and do not have those problems in Germany, so that cant be the problem. Or could it be the mal-practices that they get away with in the UK?

This is no different than other utilities. Prior to RWE buying Innogy, Npower was owned by the US company Innogy.

These companies are mandated to employ staff trained in economic regulation and well as industry compliance. Elexon, Gemserv, PAB, PWC, Ofgem, Energywatch, SVA and many other parties meet constantly to discuss industry issues.

Sadly, the companies also use the modern culture of making their experienced (and higher paid staff) and moving to cheaper rent areas where they can pay staff less. Those is a business issue and occurs in many office culture industries. This to blame are the board of directors who do this and then don't train their staff correctly.

Npower is a well known mess and it was just as big a mess years ago just after de-reg. However, by customers now hopping it has made the industry more complicated and these companies are not keeping up.

IMO, these companies need a full internal inspection but it's a huge costly job since many of the costs are due to poor management.

Terrylw1

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

I am talking about the electricity industry, and please correct me if I am wrong with the following.

1 You make more effort to read meters when customers are in. So, meter readers should be coming more at night. Then they get the abuse for turning up when people are busy. Suppliers have been contacting customers at night/weekends on this basis and it's not always favourable to customers. A change here would need to be industry led since this area is one that causes a lot complaints. NHHDC's still have to view the meter as to other parties for safety and there would still be all those meter reading disputes so remote monitoring alone would not deal with those.

2 One meter reading organisation would be much more efficient, and have the advantage of picking up the people not paying for electricity as they have "fallen off" or never been on the records by having to record every premise on a street. A major problem in the industry no-one will address because we all pay in "system losses". Why would they? From my experience of dealing with these issues at an industry compliance level with Elexon in the case of 1 large Supplier (I believe we discussed this one a while back) these issues were mostly created prior to de-reg when LDNO's controlled the registration process. The changes bought in 2000 forced Suppliers to register themselves which greatly improved this. "Falling off" can also occur due to the Agent appointment process, CoMC processes so the issue has other factors.

This is a compliance issue under the BSC so Elexon have the power to push Suppliers. If they are not and they are aware of it, chances are it's a far smaller issue than other e.g. energisation errors and Large EAC/AA's which hold a substantial industry cost.


Are we paying in system losses? The LDNO is taking the loss. This may then be reflected in operating costs to the Supplier but the consumption is not directly billed since the EAC/AA values do not pass through the NHHDA process.

3 Without going into detail there is equipment available that can feed all kinds of data (not just electricity consumption) back to a central point that is required from domestic and commercial premises using the distribution network. Small radio devices attached to any kind of measuring device. There are business cases which idicate the distributors may make a profit for the use of their system from others True. Remote readings have been possible for years but the cost to the industry is substantial. This means the cost to the consumer would be substantial. I wouldn't even be happy letting Suppliers control this as this will most likely charge back more than they pay!

4 The meters, time switches and cut-outs are assets of, and owned by the distribution company. Most, if not all have outsourced the provision of these to meter operators. Distribution companies have sole control of these assets, so could easily start a programme of remote reading, and lay down the rules to suppliers in connection with this accurate information.

REMA changed the NHHMOP side of the business to include MAP/MAM's although for most Suppliers it changed nothing until the last few years. The assets belong to the MAP, prior they belonged to the MOP. The only eason they belonged to the LDNO was because the LDNO owned the MOP.

However, all NHHMOP's have been members of the BSC from de-reg which means their compliance and any asset based processes were monitored by Elexon. LDNO's only came into the BSC in 2006.

colonelhall

I have posted elsewhere, but have not had any joy, so far. Can anyone explain how Npower can state that they will charge 4572 units at the higher rate, 'sculpted' as a percentage of this figure each month and then declare that they changed the method during the Summer, resulting in me being charged 37% more.

donglefan

Beware of Npower door to door sellers as well.

Had one yesterday who was far more cunning than ones I've encountered before.

Started off saying she was calling because she had noted that I was paying too much for my utilities (which really meant I was not with Npower but she didn't say that).
No mention of switching companies, just that she wanted to put me on a cheaper tarriff.

Invited herself in, started filling in switchover forms 'for me' without mentioning the term switchover or changing supplier.

When I said I would check it out on the net because I didn't like the pressure of doorstep selling, "O I am so sorry, I didn't mean..."
Even then she didn't totally give up - said I wouldn't get such a good oportunity on the net.

I checked out my current deal with Eon (which she assured me was the joint most expensive) at energyhelpline and it is cheaper than npower.
So Npower are training them to lie.

They also seem to be training them to hook you in by suggesting you are just applying for a cheaper tarriff rather than switching company.

Terrylw1

donglefan wrote: »

Beware of Npower door to door sellers as well.

Had one yesterday who was far more cunning than ones I've encountered before.

Started off saying she was calling because she had noted that I was paying too much for my utilities (which really meant I was not with Npower but she didn't say that).
No mention of switching companies, just that she wanted to put me on a cheaper tarriff.

Invited herself in, started filling in switchover forms 'for me' without mentioning the term switchover or changing supplier.

When I said I would check it out on the net because I didn't like the pressure of doorstep selling, "O I am so sorry, I didn't mean..."
Even then she didn't totally give up - said I wouldn't get such a good oportunity on the net.

I checked out my current deal with Eon (which she assured me was the joint most expensive) at energyhelpline and it is cheaper than npower.
So Npower are training them to lie.

They also seem to be training them to hook you in by suggesting you are just applying for a cheaper tarriff rather than switching company.

It's certainly true that reps for Npower do this, but you get this with all the companies. They often outsource as well to short terms contracts which makes it worse.

There's loads of sales cons I've seen from utility door to door reps. Sadly, when you make it all about commission and the regulator does nothing to sort out the conmen, you get the cheats.

They'll say anything for a sale because you are just a commission to them. They are not all like that though, I've had a few at my door that were normal enough.

c0113tt3

With thanks to some forum members, and watchdog pointing it out, that some people find they are charged more than 4572 tier 1 units per year. I can confirm that for my quarter and for my father in law's quarter on npower, they have over charged the amount of tier 1 units even by their new gas sculpting method. I had over paid 50 kwh at tier 1 and my father in law had over paid 120 kwh at tier 1 rates. Both of those should have been paid at tier 2 rates.

Thought I would keep the thread updated with yet more findings / confirmations that I have experienced with npower.

NewcastleMum

c0113tt3 - I had the same problems with nPower in 2006.
I did get reimbursed - but I had a lot of evidence that they had over estimated for the expensive period because half-way through the year they had started to ignore an actual reading, so their end-of year estimates were impossible. And it took a lot of my time to find a sympathetic ear - in terms of value of my time, it was probably a relative financial loss for me.
But I thought I had made a point and they wouldn't do it again! Not so....
When I heard prices were going up in January, I immediately submitted readings online. They used to send out new bills, but I got a message saying that I wouldn't get a revised bill but the readings would be taken into account on the next bill. They haven't been - I've now asked for the bill to be recalculcated 3 times to no avail. They have put lots of units into the new price regime, so I reckon they owe me £40. I'm having a sense of deja vu now and am unwilling to accept their excuses any longer (in 2006 I must have spoken to about 10 people and spend several hours on hold).
So I'm ready to make a serious complaint.
I was wondering whether anyone else has had the same experience this time? because such information would be useful to produce in evidence, when they tell me that noone else has complained about this issue, which is the common response.

c0113tt3

Update:

I took this complaint to stage 3 complaints, who agreed with my calculations and does appear to be an overpayment. It has been referred to a specialist department to identify that either both our calculations are wrong, or there may be possibly a national issue with the system billing calculations.

In the meantime, I emailed chief exec / managing director of this.

Newcastle mum :

I have all the evidence , bills, times / dates etc.. spoken to managers from 2006