NPOWER SCAMS featured on WATCHDOG 10/03/08, Email watchdog with complaints

c0113tt3

I noticed some discussions on meter readers and remote reading.

As far as the meter readers go, its a pointless exercise, Im surprised no-one has pointed this out. They take the readings, usually they have 7 to 10 days around your billing date to take the reading. Once they have this reading, it then takes approx 2 weeks to appear to your electricity provider. By then the electricity provider has already billed you with an estimate !! Rather pointless. Give your own readings solves this problem which you can do for your billing date, BUT you cant do it when we are notified late by approx 1 to 2 weeks of a price rise, to avoid in my case an NPOWER bias towards the higher prices, which is down to the billing system, and they choose to do nothing about it in over 2 years. Obviously because they earn more money from it which they are not due

As for remote meters / reading, I can not see it ever reaching the UK as it is costly to the supplier to implement, and why should they want to considering they make more money with innacurate billing systems / estimates. It does need firm action from ofgem before they would ever consider this, which pigs would fly first. This is rip - off Britain, companies get away with murder because there is very little back bone behind governing agencies. What it does need is enough people complaining in one singular action / event to create enough publicised complaint, watchdog is a good media for this and probably the government themselves, although they didnt listen to the motorists with over 2 million votes / complaints.

Anyway in regard to NPOWER, some people might find this telephone number handy, but I have found them to be useless and incompetant even at stage 3 complaints, although they are more helpful, I will give them credit for that, but still are incompetant and still mess things up. Make sure you write down, time / date / person you spoke to and what was discussed / agreed.
Stage 3 complaints 0800 107 0394

Also, dont know if some people are aware, but any correspondence / bills, have had a general enquiry / customer service number of 0845 602 6363, they still have the free 0800 number running which has been stating for the last 2 years that it may go, but here it is 0800 073 3000.

Also, with thanks to another NPOWER forum poster, I gained the email addresses to the MD and CEO, so if you try stage 3 complaints and get nowhere, you could private message me and I would pass on the email adresses.

daveyjp

I've e-mailed Scottish Power about the property we sold and received an automated response saying they will respond within 5 days - the strap line says they received an award for their excellent on line service (didn't say when though). Problem is I received exactly the same response in October 2007 and I'm still waiting for a 5 day response!

My home meter is read every quarter (it's in a box outside) and I never receive an estimated bill - always as read - this is BG using "Meter Plus" readers.

SwanJon

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

I am talking about the electricity industry, and please correct me if I am wrong with the following.
1 You make more effort to read meters when customers are in.

Well, yes. It takes more effort as they have to cross the threshold and read the meter instead of moving onto the next house. This isn't premeditated.

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

2 One meter reading organisation would be much more efficient, and have the advantage of picking up the people not paying for electricity as they have "fallen off" or never been on the records by having to record every premise on a street. A major problem in the industry no-one will address because we all pay in "system losses".

Who says that one company would be more efficient? Were the nationalised monoplies efficient, or their privatised versions? There are other mechanisms to check for those who have fallen off - having the meter read wouldn't mean that they were found again.

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

3 Without going into detail there is equipment available that can feed all kinds of data (not just electricity consumption) back to a central point that is required from domestic and commercial premises using the distribution network. Small radio devices attached to any kind of measuring device. There are business cases which idicate the distributors may make a profit for the use of their system from others

Fine, but how much would 25 million of these cost to install and maintain? (still 10,000 engineers if only taking about electricity, but they might need to eat, sleep etc). What type of companies would pay for this information?

Gavioli_UK wrote: »

4 The meters, time switches and cut-outs are assets of, and owned by the distribution company. Most, if not all have outsourced the provision of these to meter operators. Distribution companies have sole control of these assets, so could easily start a programme of remote reading, and lay down the rules to suppliers in connection with this accurate information.

This isn't the case. Historically it was, and for many meters it still is, this is why NG Metering was fined £41 million. For electricity the 14 local companies are the legacy MOP, but suppliers can, and have chosen other companies - I deal with them each day and they are not part of the local distribution companies.
I've had a local distribution company refuse to visit a sparking meter because it wasn't one of theirs.

Either way, the MOPs are paid by the Supplier so will do what the Supplier pays for.

Cardew

c0113tt3 wrote: »

As for remote meters / reading, I can not see it ever reaching the UK as it is costly to the supplier to implement, and why should they want to considering they make more money with innacurate billing systems / estimates.

I agree with much of what you post, except you have a 'thing' about them making money from wrong estimates as a deliberate scam. I know you have posted on this subject before.

Firstly they don't make money from estimates - they lose acording to the Regulator.

Secondly, a scam as you suggest(from estimates - not your other points) would be criminal deception and so easy to prove. Read the post by someone who works in the industry(Terry post #3) in this thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=686901&highlight=Whistle+blower

I am all for people sorting out the many disgraceful practices by the energy industry that you point out, and appear to be campaigning on.

However IMO you weaken your case by making accusations without producing any evidence, particularly since those accusations can be easily defended.

There are plenty of factual malpractices that can be attacked.

c0113tt3

Cardew wrote: »

I agree with much of what you post, except you have a 'thing' about them making money from wrong estimates as a deliberate scam. I know you have posted on this subject before.

Firstly they don't make money from estimates - they lose acording to the Regulator.

Secondly, a scam as you suggest(from estimates - not your other points) would be criminal deception and so easy to prove. Read the post by someone who works in the industry(Terry post #3) in this thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=686901&highlight=Whistle+blower

I am all for people sorting out the many disgraceful practices by the energy industry that you point out, and appear to be campaigning on.

However IMO you weaken your case by making accusations without producing any evidence, particularly since those accusations can be easily defended.

There are plenty of factual malpractices that can be attacked.

NPOWER have been aware since 2006 with the bias towards the price increase on my bills, i.e they estimate upto the day before the increase, and then estimate from that figure to my actual reading. On all 4 increases / estimates, suddenly I started using 3 to 4 times more gas / elec per day, which also means they under estimated my bill upto the day before the increase. They are very aware of the billing system and what it did on my bills, even an operations manager (senior manager) admitted the problem and stated as long as they prove an intent to make the system more accurate, then energy watch would do nothing about it. . As previously stated it is 2008 now, and nothing has changed on my bills. 2. Secondly, knowing how the system works, why do they not inform customers before the price increase dates instead of after, and then encourage customers to give readings upto the day before the increase?
Thirdly why introduce a seasonal weighting system, that does involve in paying more primary units, and deny that it would cost you more? Then of course there is the point that watchdog made, on how they see a year comes to 9 months, and customers have been reporting that they pay more than they should in primary units.

I forgot to mention that they did try and fob me off saying that the estimate is based upon your actual useage / seasonal useage, (which i always give accurate readings every quarter for the last 6 years) which i proved to be incorrect, and then the operations manager admitted it is the billing system.

It is the billing system that is inacurate, and have not stated that it is deliberate, I stated that they had an intent to make it more accurate and so far I have not seen this on my bills.

I have all the bills, dates, times, names and conversations from 2006.

c0113tt3

Another point that is worth mentioning. It stated on watchdog, energy watch had informed them, that with all other energy suppliers apart from NPOWER complaints have been on a decline, but with NPOWER they had risen by 30%, so much so energy watch had referred them OFGEM. Again you have to ask why is this?

Is it because they are the only energy supplier that have staff / managers / senior managers / executive level, that dont have much of a clue of the energy business / procedures / management? Well they are German owned, and do not have those problems in Germany, so that cant be the problem. Or could it be the mal-practices that they get away with in the UK?

You decide .....

In reply to Cardew. You mention whistle blower. For anyone to consider that avenue, they would have to have the confidence that something would be done. Generally in the media it is believed that energy watch / ofgem do not enforce anything and do very little indeed for consumers. In fact it is believed that they support the energy companies more than anything. So why would anyone whistle blow, their time and effort and risk for little or no result?

Cardew

c0113tt3 wrote: »

In reply to Cardew. You mention whistle blower. For anyone to consider that avenue, they would have to have the confidence that something would be done. Generally in the media it is believed that energy watch / ofgem do not enforce anything and do very little indeed for consumers. In fact it is believed that they support the energy companies more than anything. So why would anyone whistle blow, their time and effort and risk for little or no result?

As I said earlier, I agree totally about the malpractices of NPower; in particular the 'sleight of hand practice' of seasonal weighting of primary units. That is a scam, in that I doubt if but a tiny percentage of their customers appreciate they are being mugged! But it is obviously not illegal.

Similarly the belated notification of price rises is poor practice; but again not illegal. In fact the Regulator has just given a directive that allows them to delay notification for many weeks after the date of the price rise.

On that point it can actually work against the interests of NPower to delay formal notification of a rise. This is because if you notify NPower of your intention to leave them, after you have received that notification, your prices are frozen at the pre-increase level.
e.g. Prices rise on 01 March, formal notification sent to you, say, 16 April, you tell NPower that you are changing supplier and you are pegged to the pre-Mar 1st prices.

However where I take issue with you is this statement:

i

.e they estimate upto the day before the increase, and then estimate from that figure to your actual reading. On all 4 increases / estimates, suddenly you start using 3 to 4 times more gas / elec per day, which also means they under estimated upto the day before the increase. They are very aware of the billing system and what it does, even an operations manager (senior manager) admitted the problem

That couldn't happen by accident! Someone would have to program the computer for that to happen.

That is very clearly 'conspiracy to defraud' - a criminal offence - and it would be the easiest thing in the world to prove during an investigation.

As for "confidence that something would be done"! It is pertinent to point out that Severn Trent Water committed a 'technical' offence nowhere near the severity of offence that you allege and were fined £millions and had to make full restoration to customers. For your offence the penalties would be far worse.

I frankly simply don't believe that practice occurs; although I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

However if you are convinced enough to put those accusations(of criminal behaviour) on this public forum; why don't you write formally to the Police, copied to the Regulator with your proof? Or any one of the many organisations that would take the matter up for you.

So why not do just that - file a formal complaint? or withdraw very serious allegations.

Personally I would be very concerned about making such specific allegations of criminal behaviour on a Public forum, without being able to back them up; and IMO Martin would be at risk for allowing those allegations to remain on his forum.

P.S.
Please note that in suggesting you complain I am talking solely about defrauding customers by deliberately incorrectly estimating meter readings.

notbritishgas

I am with npower and I am not a fan of them at all, in fact I will leave them in April when my yearly cashback arrives.
However I would like to back up Cardew's point. I take my readings every week but I DID NOT inform npower of the readings at the price increase date.
It was with some trepidation therefore when I opened my electricity bill dated 23 Jan 2008.The results are; My readings for Jan 5 (I take them on a Saturday) Night units 8054, Day units 21821.
Npower's estimate for Jan 4, Night units 8050, Day units 21821.
Unbelievable but true, I have no reason at all to falsely praise npower.

c0113tt3

From the advice of cardew, I withdraw this comment:
.e they estimate upto the day before the increase, and then estimate from that figure to your actual reading. On all 4 increases / estimates, suddenly I started using 3 to 4 times more gas / elec per day, which also means they under estimated upto the day before the increase. They are very aware of the billing system and what it does, even an operations manager (senior manager) admitted the problem

It is the billing system that is inacurate, and have not stated that it is deliberate, I stated that they had an intent to make it more accurate and so far I have not seen this on my bills.

I have all the bills, dates, times, names and conversations from 2006.

1ipstick

I have what might be a very stupid question: Would the winter months still be the most expensive months (for the electricity) if all your heating is gas? I live in a small 2-bed flat and my heating is gas. My Npower bill went from £20 down to £14 in October (so obviously they must have realised that I wasn't using £20/month).
My recent bill from the end of Feb has put my bill up to **£83** a month!! An increase of 600%!
I phoned up to ask why and got a vague answer that 'it's normal to pay more in winter'. They put the payments down to £66 (presumably over a longer period, but I couldn't get an explanation out of the clueless customer services person). I sent another meter reading immediately and have had another bill which seems to be even more (haven't had a chance to look at it properly today).
I understand that if there was some under-estimation over the past few months, then my new bill will include making that up as well as the ongoing charges, but surely not by that much. I also understand that they've raised their prices but again, surely not by that much!
I have sent an email but they take days to reply - they said that that's what my usage was. I have not changed my habits at all in the last few months. In fact I don't know what I could do to use my appliances 6 times as much as I do now!
Does anyone have any idea how I could have racked up this high charge, or could there be something wrong with the meter? (I don't read the meter that regularly as it's hard for me to access and I need help doing it).
I'm going to switch but am desperate for help as to what to do!
Thanks all.