Boxer needs a docked tail!!!

studentgirl_2

ohhh how intresting.

I grew up with boxers and I think they look very handsome with there tails docked and ears cut. I understand what you are all saying but they are animals that we as humans have domesticated and changed to suit our own needs and wants. they are now bread to play in the park and live in our home rather that hunt and live wild ect.

I can hear you all shouting at me, sorry just my point of view,

I have Bengal cats and they to are wild animals should we be domesticating any animal for our own pleasure.

I love my spotty big cat, but should he be in my home or catching fish in s/asaia

Fleago

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

That is not my understanding. If it's a "Working Breed" it can be docked in England, even if there is no intention of working the dog. Indeed, it can be a working breed, be docked and STILL be a show dog under the KC rules. The only stipulation being that a docked cannot be shown at a KC show where the public pays an admission fee; OR it can be shown where the public pays a fee, provided it is shown to demonstrate its working abilities.

Clear as mud, eh.

But docking of working breeds is still legal in England

Hi DFC,

As clear a mud as you say! According to the outline Anna posted on page 2 it says that for the exempted dogs, the vet has to see written evidence that the pup is genuinely likely to work and also the owner must declare that it is genuinely likely to work and to make a false declaration is an offence. I can't see how this could mean entire litters could be done, as, certainly in my breed, a breeder would be hard pressed to honestly declare that they were all genuinely likely to work. Moreover, at three days old, they would hardly be able to tell which ones would go to genuinely working homes. So it seems to me the exemptions, although they certainly exist, are very awkward.

In terms of showing, yes I agree a legally docked one can be shown in certain circumstances, eg working classes, but in terms of a show dog being shown in "conformation", being docked would grind their career to a halt, since the big shows have entrance fees for the public.

Blimey, now my head's hurting, trying to see the wood for the trees! :rotfl:

Mrs_pbradley936

For how long was docking carried out? When did people start to think it was wicked? I am only asking because anyone that had the act of a horse being shod described to them would think it was awful if they did not know better - red hot irons, hammers and nails how dreadful all because people want to ride them. I may not know a great deal about dogs but I know a lot about horses.

Fleago

Interesting question, Mrspb. I've tried googling, but can't find definitive answers. I would reckon with the workers, docking began way back in the early days of the breeds and for some breeds that would mean hundreds of years ago.

I've only become conscious of a large "anti" body of opinion within the last few years, but that might just be because I was oblivious to something that was already happening.

About five years ago, a teenager berated me in a shop because she said I had been cruel to my dogs because they were docked.

DKLS

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

NO - please do the research.

These are Working Breeds and can be legally docked in England, even under the new regs.

I was referring to the wording in the ads I saw and the original OP having difficulty finding a docked pup, they are clearly available, and it wasnt too hard to find pitbull puppies whic were described as being from proven game lines



"3 boys- one brown and tan and 2 black and tan; 6 girls: 3 brown and tan and 3 black and tan. They were born and raised in Ireland where is no ban for docking. They are ready for viewing. All puppies will be registered with Irish Kennel Club, legally docked,wormed, paper trained, 6 weeks free insurance."

" beautiful litter of boxers out of champion blood lines .kc registered 6 weeks free insurance,5 generation pedigree,diet sheet, tails docked dew-claws removed"

"kc reg and ped certificate, fully vacc and wormed, vet checked.docked and dew clawed. exc chunky pups from a long line of irish champions"

Kimberley

studentgirl wrote: »

ohhh how intresting.

I grew up with boxers and I think they look very handsome with there tails docked and ears cut. I understand what you are all saying but they are animals that we as humans have domesticated and changed to suit our own needs and wants. they are now bread to play in the park and live in our home rather that hunt and live wild ect.

I can hear you all shouting at me, sorry just my point of view,

I have Bengal cats and they to are wild animals should we be domesticating any animal for our own pleasure.

I love my spotty big cat, but should he be in my home or catching fish in s/asaia

Most of us are saying that docking is cruel, it hurts the pup when done, thats what we don't like, not the look of the dog after.

MrsTinks

I have to say I think undocked dogs a beautiful! A friend of mine has a doberman who has intact ears and tail. Yeah his tail is like a whip but he's just plain beautiful and why anyone would want to cut their ears and tails off is beyond me...
I recognise that some working dogs need to be docked for work purposes but it IS possible to surgically remove the tail when the dog is older if it becomes necessary. And the "higher risk of infection" just doesn't validate as an excuse. The dogs can get an infection as easily from stepping on a rusty nail as they can from an injured tail - once it's injured it's of little risk from infection so long as it's taken to a vet and treated like any animal should be...
Just my point of view obviously...

anna42hmr

found this on kennel club ref the law that was bought in and its exact wording:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060045_en.pdf

its on page 6 and 7

basically it states that docking is permitted in certain breeds if it is intended to work, and not any other reason, and that evidence needs to be given to vets showing that pup will be working, and any one who faulsely claims it will be a working dog, can also face prosecution

Soubrette

studentgirl wrote: »

ohhh how intresting.

I grew up with boxers and I think they look very handsome with there tails docked and ears cut. I understand what you are all saying but they are animals that we as humans have domesticated and changed to suit our own needs and wants. they are now bread to play in the park and live in our home rather that hunt and live wild ect.

I can hear you all shouting at me, sorry just my point of view,

I have Bengal cats and they to are wild animals should we be domesticating any animal for our own pleasure.

I love my spotty big cat, but should he be in my home or catching fish in s/asaia

It seems like you saying that any cosmetic change in domesticated animal is okay so long as we find it aesthetically pleasing?

How about putting in a tongue bar? Or splitting the tongue so it looks snake like?
Can I amputate a leg if I find 3 legs more attractive than four?

I am genuinely interested in your answers here and am not being sarcastic

Would your spotty big cat rather be in your house or out in the wild with uncertain food supply, no shelter and competition with other animals to deal with?

I feel that the human/animal relationship should be symbiotic with both parties gaining from it. I honestly believe that most pets (if they had the wherewithal to make a choice ) would choose the cushy number of being a pet.

Sou

Mrs_pbradley936

Soubrette wrote: »

It seems like you saying that any cosmetic change in domesticated animal is okay so long as we find it aesthetically pleasing?

How about putting in a tongue bar? Or splitting the tongue so it looks snake like?
Can I amputate a leg if I find 3 legs more attractive than four?

I am genuinely interested in your answers here and am not being sarcastic

Would your spotty big cat rather be in your house or out in the wild with uncertain food supply, no shelter and competition with other animals to deal with?

I feel that the human/animal relationship should be symbiotic with both parties gaining from it. I honestly believe that most pets (if they had the wherewithal to make a choice ) would choose the cushy number of being a pet.

Sou

Some procedures and some animals are treated differently under the law.
Some procedures are labelled “animal husbandry” and others “veterinary surgery”
Some animals are labelled as “livestock” and others as “domestic pets” I think there is another category for wild animals for zoos, wildlife parks etc.

That means that farmers can castrate animals, apply ear tags, nose rings, buy medicine in special shops, slaughter animals, farriers can shoe horses and so on all without reference to a vet if it is a routine matter. Farmers often get upset because they can treat many animals but if for instance they have a sheep dog then really they should take it to a vet because it is not livestock. So they would get a bill for something that they think they could have dealt with themselves.

To answer your question about being able to perform veterinary surgery on a domestic pet then no you would not be able to unless you had a licence. That is what I was originally curious about i.e some things being fine and others not depending on who you asked rather than what was law. However the law has changed although it is confusing to say the least. Far better to have something legal or illegal that way every knows where they are.