Boxer needs a docked tail!!!

Soubrette

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

My understanding is that there has been a change in animal welfare legislation to the effect that only certain breeds of dogs may now be docked whereas previously other breeds could be docked. This tells me that in some cases docking is deemed to be for the benefit of the dog but that previously dogs were docked that would not benefit. Or else why not ban it all? Perhaps you can outline exactly what I am missing without resorting to sarcasm?

I think you are missing the point that people are not against docking per se. In some cases it is debated such as working dogs, some professionals think they should be docked and some not. At this time the former have the floor. In the case of extreme injury no one would deny that sometimes docking is the only way forward. So in some instances docking is not wrong and indeed is the only thing that might save a dog from more serious injury and perhaps death if infection set in.

I do hope you aren't reading my posts as sarcastic - they are meant to put forward an alternative point of view to your own and also to point out the fact that more than once I believe you have mistakenly put forward an argument that no one has actually put forward and then arguing against that position.

Likewise I appreciate people doing the same with me if they consider I am misunderstanding the situation.

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

We could be having exactly the same moral debate about whether or not it is OK to smack a child. Years ago children got the cane in school and it was accepted practice to discipline children by smacking now people are against it and want to outlaw it altogether. Or we could be talking about abortions and instead of the photo of tails we could be treated to pictures of tiny babies torn from their mother’s wombs. Some people are for that and others against but you cannot ask questions (and receive sensible answers) and debate with people who are over emotional to the point that their judgement is clouded and their language advertises that fact.

Just because someone is emotive does not negate their argument. Someone truly reflective and open minded will try and get to the facts behind an emotional argument rather than dismissing it. If the argument is truly only emotional then fair enough so if the OP had been called dog mutilator by all and sundy with no explanation then that is one thing but a variety of reasons have been put forward as to why docking is considered by some to be barbaric when done for fashion or taste.

Sou

allycat999

I totally disagree with docking puppies tails. They cry out in pain when you dock their tails, then you have to stop the bleeding - usually by applying a special powder. It is one of the jobs i hated the most. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Tails are usually docked between 3 - 5 days, any earlier the fear is the poor puppy will die of shock, any later its illegal.

Mrs_pbradley936

I really do not have a point of view on the topic and I am certainly not defending it.

quidsin

allycat999 wrote: »

I totally disagree with docking puppies tails. They cry out in pain when you dock their tails, then you have to stop the bleeding - usually by applying a special powder. It is one of the jobs i hated the most. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Tails are usually docked between 3 - 5 days, any earlier the fear is the poor puppy will die of shock, any later its illegal.

I've seen tails been docked, and the puppies didn't even know they'd been done, removal of dew claws is more painfull and electric shock collars are still leagal !!!! why haven't these been banned under the Animal Wellfare Act???

Fleago

Very interesting thread! I am completely against docking for cosmetic purposes. I must confess though, that my dogs are docked and I support the type of docking they had. This is because they are specimens of a working breed; their dock, however, is not a prticularly short one. Enough of the tail was left to allow the dog to still signal with their tail and use it within their working activities. What was removed was the long, whippy end that could easily be damaged in the type of terrain they work in and the type of work they do.

Now, in Scotland docking is now completely illegal; I already know of a puppy from my breed who has suffered a very damaged tail, which may end up in amptation being needed, much more risky and painful than the docking of a 3 day old whelp. The law has been enacted though and although I don't agree with the way it was formulated and the fact there are no exemptions, it is what it is for the forseeable future.

Now in England and Wales, there are exemptions, but those in themselves are problematic. In my breed, there is absolutely no division between a working type and a show type. They are what they are and even those who are not formally worked, if exercised in their natural terrain, perform the activities of their working instincts, ie they are at risk from tail damage. The law in E & W allows those going to be genuinely worked to be docked. The problem with this is that even leaving aside the point that many "non working" dogs of the breed will still in essence perform working activities, is that at three days old the breeder has no idea which of the pups will be going to homes that are genuine working homes because they have not yet seen the personailities of the pups to ascertain in which pups the working instincts are strongest.

Add to this, the fact that show specimens must not be docked if the owner wishes to compete; again, at three days old the breeder has no idea which pups are going to be more promising for the show ring. Finally, if someone wants a genuine duel purpose one, they've had it; it must not be docked for showing purposes, but the working activities will then be more of a risk for the dog.

It's a really thorny debate, that can become extremely emotive, but I do think that breeds such as mine should have been allowed a complete exemption, but I say that on pragmatic grounds and to protect the welfare of the dogs in the longer run. But, as I said, I am completely against docking for purely cosmetic purposes and if I'm perfectly frank, I think if people hadn't carried out vanity docking for donkey's years making the practice widespread, then the debate would not have arisen in the manner that it did and the working dogs would not now be having their welfare compromised.

So do I think OP should be able to get a docked Boxer. Absoultely not. Do I wish that any future representatives of my breed that I might get could be docked. Absolutely yes.

Just my tuppence worth.

LittleTinker

So....a dogs tail cannot be docked at 3 days old.....but a little baby can have his foreskin removed for religious reasons at say......3 months old??? Doesnt seem quite right to me.

Debt_Free_Chick

DKLS wrote: »

Have just done a web search to see how easy it would be to get a KC registered puppy with a docked tail., in less than 2 mins, I have found 4 litters of boxer and dobermann puppies.
Vets must be doing a roaring trade in ireland

NO - please do the research.

These are Working Breeds and can be legally docked in England, even under the new regs.

Debt_Free_Chick

Fleago wrote: »

The law in E & W allows those going to be genuinely worked to be docked.

That is not my understanding. If it's a "Working Breed" it can be docked in England, even if there is no intention of working the dog. Indeed, it can be a working breed, be docked and STILL be a show dog under the KC rules. The only stipulation being that a docked cannot be shown at a KC show where the public pays an admission fee; OR it can be shown where the public pays a fee, provided it is shown to demonstrate its working abilities.

Clear as mud, eh.

But docking of working breeds is still legal in England

HC_2

Mrs_pbradley936 wrote: »

I really do not have a point of view on the topic and I am certainly not defending it.

Mrs pbradley936, it's frightening to think how much you'd say if you actually DID have a 'point of view'.

Martin's server would lay down and die!

Mrs_pbradley936

HC wrote: »

Mrs pbradley936, it's frightening to think how much you'd say if you actually DID have a 'point of view'.

Martin's server would lay down and die!

Well I was just curious as to why some surgical interventions are OK but others not depending on who was saying it!