Water4Petrol Water4cars -Scam or Miracle?

sovereignvids

I'm only telling what I have seen on the TV Local News (2 weeks ago) in which a company is selling hydrogen generators to haulage companies here in the South East
and using in my car (Water4Gas) which was the first question in this tread

Its clear that I'm wasting my time here so I have nothing more to add...

sovereignvids

superscaper wrote: »

The ONLY conceivable way of getting out the actual stored energy in Hydrogen itself is either by fusion or annihilation. Billions has been spent on the former already (hardly brushed under the carpet by the oil industry is it?, I mean funny how they never suppressed fission either if they really were trying to suppress alternative fuels) and it's still a long way off an entire viable power plant. But since we're not talking about either fusion or annihilation, we're only talking about normal chemistry which can't extract the stored energy in hydrogen other than the chemical energy that's put in in the first place I don't see how anyone in their right mind would think that they're achieving something even a GCSE student could point out the flaws in the logic?

I can conceivably see you may possibly be able to use hydrogen combustion to make the petrol combustion more efficient but that would mean it wasn't burning properly in the first place and simply replacing the spark plugs and tuning and cleaning the cylinders would esssentially have the same effect. You wouldn't be gaining energy from the system, merely reducing existing problems in the engine (but for more money than simply rectifying the problem by a mechanic anyway).

Hydrogen On Demand

Hydrogen-on-demand systems within the automotive industry may one day rock the world. If the current hydrogen on demand systems that are being developed pan out or if future hydrogen-on-demand systems take hold, this could mean that building a huge hydrogen gas infrastructure is not necessary. A hydrogen generator may one day start with just the turn of an ignition key.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Hydrogen Power Inc.'s Converted 2005 Ford Ranger XL[/FONT]

Currently, the hydrogen-on-demand systems that are being developed for the automotive industry either use electrolysis or a chemical reaction in order to generate hydrogen as needed for a car equipped with either an internal combustion engine (ICE) or a fuel cell. The hydrogen-on-demand systems that use electrolysis generally use some other metal catalyst such as aluminum or magnesium to help aid in the process.

The hydrogen-on-demand systems that use a chemical reaction usually start with sodium borohydride (or another boron / hydrogen derivative), which is a hydrogen-rich chemical compound and force a reaction that releases the hydrogen as needed. In the case of sodium borohydride (NaBH4), the result of the chemical reaction is to degrade into inert salt, which can then be recycled back into sodium borohydride again.

Some of the companies currently developing hydrogen-on-demand technology include Hydrogen Power Incorporated, who have developed a Hydrogen Now system, which they have demonstrated at the 2007 International Auto Show in Seattle, Washington. The Hydrogen Now system was retrofitted inside a 2005 Ford Ranger XL. Another company that currently has a retrofit hydrogen insertion device on the market, Hypower Fuel Incorporated is testing its new Hydrogen Reactor (H2R) on-demand system and is expected soon to demonstrate its device.

HyPower Fuel has also teamed up with scientists and researchers from Middle Tennessee State University to produce a plug-in hybrid electric flex fuel vehicle that uses hydrogen on demand technology. Dr. Clifton Ricketts is leading the project and expects to be able to develop a racecar using this same technology that will be run at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah.

Ecotality out of Scottsdale, Arizona is developing its Hydratus system to power a bus using a combination of magnesium and water. Ecotality and is expecting a bus tour demonstration sometime in the latter part of 2007.

In 2002, the Duffy fuel cell boat made waves by testing out a hydrogen-on-demand system developed by hydrogen battery maker, Millennium Cell. The boat also was equipped with a fuel cell. The hydrogen-on-demand Duffy boat used borax as its source for sodium borohydride to power the vessel. Millennium Cell also demonstrated its hydrogen-on-demand systems in the 2001 DaimlerChrysler Town & Country Natrium and the Peugeot-Citroen H2O concept vehicles.

Millennium Cell has a 5-year $3 million contract with the Department of Energy to continue research on sodium borohydride technology. Millennium Cell is also working with the Los Alamos National Lab and Dow Chemical on methods to lower the cost of manufacturing the chemical compound.

Samsung Engineering has also developed a prototype scooter that uses sodium borohydride for its hydrogen-on-demand applications to power the vehicle.

So far, hydrogen-on-demand technology has not gained much attention but the implications of such technology are immense. One day in the future, it might just be that the Big Chemical companies are fighting with the Big Oil companies over who will be fueling the nation's cars. Wouldn't this be interesting?

Its also worth checking the MIT website on this subject

Above details from: http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/hydrogen-on-demand.htm

superscaper

sovereignvids wrote: »

so I have nothing more to add...

That's a whole lot of nothing you're adding.

You still don't get it do you. You're still posting about completely different things, direct borohydride is still just a battery that needs replacing. You make it (using energy) and there is chemical energy stored in the battery. The stored energy is used for electrolysing water. The energy you get out is still no more than the energy put in to the system.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should lower the duty on it.

sovereignvids wrote: »

I'm only telling what I have seen on the TV Local News (2 weeks ago) in which a company is selling hydrogen generators to haulage companies here in the South East
and using in my car (Water4Gas) which was the first question in this tread

Its clear that I'm wasting my time here so I have nothing more to add...

Sorry to get personal but you appear to be a blithering idiot. Of course you can use hydrogen in vehicles designed to run from that gas - nobody denies that.

To create the hydrogen requires energy. No matter if its in an internal combustion engine, or a refinery - you need ENERGY to create hydrogen gas.

You need MORE energy to create the gas than you gain from burning it.

If you don't understand this, see my first sentence in this post.

sovereignvids

This site makes for some very interesting reading from North America
http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/media/mediaDownload.asp
it shows that, as usual we are a few years behind the US.

Also,this link from Fox Business News
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/energy/hydrogenics-provides-clean-energy-hydrogen-generation-shell-hydrogen-california/-2075241822

If we don't want to end up with the same air pollution similar to Beijing then we must improve on what we have now or pay a heavy price in the very near future.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should lower the duty on it.

Stop talking !!!!!!!!.

yaoyao98

PEAB wrote: »

I feel totally inadequate when it comes to knowing what to do to close down those fraudulant HHO fuel cell websites. There should be some sort of organisation to which one can complain about their false claims.

If you haven't checked the site www.water4cars.co.uk recently, better check it now that there is a new video on it with the right department for you to report the so-perceived scam that is Honea Path police department.

kaya

Anybody who has experimented with these "under bonnet" hydrogen generators would know that the majority of them including the water4gas tat on the link will simply boil and inject water vapour after a few minuites of use, heat is a by-product of electrolysis, add this to the lack of air flow and extreme underbonnet temps and you have just installed a very expensive 12v kettle!!

redux

sovereignvids wrote: »

I am also in the process of building such an item to run my own car and vans(5), so far the signs are very promising with good hydrogen production (approx 1.5ltrs per min)

1.5 litres a minute? wow!

that's 90 litres an hour, of which two-thirds is hydrogen

60 litres of hydrogen weighs about five and a half grammes

which won't add much efficiency to your engine compared the 5 to 10 litres of petrol or diesel (which contain compounds of mostly hydrogen and carbon) used in that hour

- especially when you've actually used slightly more of that fuel to generate the electricity to electrolyse the water

kaya

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8313832.stm
ooops