Water4Petrol Water4cars -Scam or Miracle?

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

Quote from superscaper >Besides if H2 and O2 combustion is SOOO efficient and cheap then why is Rocket propulsion for space launches so incredibly expensive for payloads and massive research put into alternative methods? Aside from that the Space Shuttle for example doesn't even use Hydrogen and Oxygen as fuel at initial take off, it only uses it after the more serious amount of thrust has already been achieved.

As an aside, I'm afraid that is not correct. The Shuttle uses its hydrogen/oxygen main engines in conjunction with its Solid Fuel Booster rockets right from the start during take-off. See this link for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_main_engine

Hope that clarifies that issue.

For the sake of this thread it is worth noting that the Shuttle uses probably 40,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen and oxygen per minute during take off. Hardly to be compared to the 2 litres of hydrogen gas that an HHO fuel cell is supposed to produce per minute.

Conclusion: HHO fuel cells for cars are a scam.

superscaper

PEAB wrote: »

Quote from superscaper >Besides if H2 and O2 combustion is SOOO efficient and cheap then why is Rocket propulsion for space launches so incredibly expensive for payloads and massive research put into alternative methods? Aside from that the Space Shuttle for example doesn't even use Hydrogen and Oxygen as fuel at initial take off, it only uses it after the more serious amount of thrust has already been achieved.

As an side, I'm afraid that is not correct. The Shuttle uses its hydrogen/oxygen main engines in conjunction with its Solid Fuel Booster rockets right from the start during take-off. See this link for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_main_engine

Hope that clarifies that issue.

For the sake of this thread it is worth noting that the Shuttle uses probably 40,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen and oxygen per minute during take off. Hardly to be compared to the 2 litres of hydrogen gas that an HHO fuel cell is supposed to produce per minute.

Conclusion: HHO fuel cells for cars are a scam.

Yep my mistake they're concurrent. But main point is still valid the H2 and O2 fuel combustion on its' own still isn't enough for launch of the shuttle.

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

Quote from AdrianHi > I think the original topic has run it's course, what more is there to say than virtually all of these Water4Fuel systems just don't work, often make things worse and the one that might work is probably still not a good idea due to the modifications required to the car.

I agree with you. However I am so incensed by the many websites attempting to get good honest people to part with their hard earned money for something that does not work, that I am finding it hard to stop my tirade against them.

It really annoys me and I believe the websites should be closed down as fraudulent. Stanley Meyer, who made the original claims for HHO, was successfully prosecuted in 1996 for his scam. Thus I believe all the websites selling HHO fuel cells should also be prosecuted for fraud.

superscaper

PEAB wrote: »

Quote from AdrianHi > I think the original topic has run it's course, what more is there to say than virtually all of these Water4Fuel systems just don't work, often make things worse and the one that might work is probably still not a good idea due to the modifications required to the car.

I agree with you. However I am so incensed by the many websites attempting to get good honest people to part with their hard earned money for something that does not work, that I am finding it hard to stop my tirade against them.

It really annoys me and I believe the websites should be closed down as fraudulent. Stanley Meyer, who made the original claims for HHO, was successfully prosecuted in 1996 for his scam. Thus I believe all the websites selling HHO fuel cells should also be prosecuted for fraud.

And of course the whole reason we got diverted onto hydrogen fuel cells in the first place was the misguided attempt of adding links, by sovereignvids, to that technology as if it somehow supported and gave leverage to this Meyer "technology" even though they're completely different things. Either it was simply a lack of understanding (which would explain not understanding the futility of the Meyer stuff and being able to apply logic to it) or a deliberate attempt to confuse the issue by adding a legitimate technology's evidence as the same thing (which is certainly the earmark of the fraud involved in this area).

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

I feel totally inadequate when it comes to knowing what to do to close down those fraudulant HHO fuel cell websites. There should be some sort of organisation to which one can complain about their false claims.

superscaper

PEAB wrote: »

I feel totally inadequate when it comes to knowing what to do to close down those fraudulant HHO fuel cell websites. There should be some sort of organisation to which one can complain about their false claims.

It'll probably be ineffectual, but it they're UK based then you could always contact Trading Standards. The trading laws (Consumer Protection Regulations) have been tightened up a bit recently at the end of May (even to the point of making it difficult for "psychics" and "mediums" to make spurious claims and are open to being sued etc).

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

superscaper wrote: »

It'll probably be ineffectual, but it they're UK based then you could always contact Trading Standards. The trading laws (Consumer Protection Regulations) have been tightened up a bit recently at the end of May (even to the point of making it difficult for "psychics" and "mediums" to make spurious claims and are open to being sued etc).

Thanks for that idea. I have already asked the BBC's Watchdog program to investigate the matter. Maybe the next stop is Trading Standards.

superscaper

Can't think of any off hand but maybe worth contacting a UK based sceptical or critical thinking organisation to help with the fight.

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

A quick update - I have asked my local Trading Standards Office to investigate for fraud the fuel-saving claims for HHO cells.

PEAB_2

Yes, it's too expensive and the government should improve Public transport.

Perhaps also Motoring Which?, the RAC and the AA.