Let's speculate on how PPM will work.

Grey_Critic

Will not be a problem - YOU WILL have a Black Box fitted. 

There may be a few problems to start with but just like all the other bits and pieces fitted in the factory it will happen and just like Smart Meters at some point they will have the ability to turn things off.

I personally choose not to have a Smart Meter but I am well aware that at some point I will have no choice. The same will apply to vehicles

facade

I'm not far off, well it is pretty obvious!

The only major difference is they imply that you actually do pay per single mile, rather than overpay as mileage blocks of 1000 or something.

I suspect it will change to overpay as blocks that are only refunded as whole unused blocks, it will be a nice earner.

Did you spot the part that said In order to protect the children your privacy we won't ask where you clocked the mileage, only charge you for it, so tough if you do miles abroad, you can pay for it anyway?

They'd obviously like it absorbed into the price of a new car, as then they can charge VAT on it.

Nice of them (me as usual) to pick up the bill for administering mileage collection at MOT, when mileage has been recorded if available at the MOT for donkey's years. I suppose someone (me again) has to pay for the check at years 1 and 2 though.

I wonder what will happen if my dash display happens to fail at each MOT (leaving the speedometer displayed on the HUD) and they can't read the mileage. Will not being able to read an odometer become an MOT fail?

paul_c123

facade said:

The only major difference is they imply that you actually do pay per single mile, rather than overpay as mileage blocks of 1000 or something.

I wonder what will happen if my dash display happens to fail at each MOT (leaving the speedometer displayed on the HUD) and they can't read the mileage. Will not being able to read an odometer become an MOT fail?

Nobody except you has mentioned blocks of (for example) 1000 miles. I don't see why they can't do it per mile, its not like the 3 times table is especially complicated.

Yes, they have hinted that a functioning odometer will be a legal requirement. Can't see why it won't be a good idea anyway - and it has side benefits too.

Grey_Critic

I assume most countries benefit from duties of some kind on Petrol?Diesel and motoring. IF the world gets rid of vehicles powered by fossil fuels then those countries who have benefitted from said duties will want/need to replace them so why would they not switch to PPM

NO government can survive without taxation - they have no money except what they get from taxation in its various forms.

Herzlos

Car_54 said:

Niv said:

WellKnownSid said:

Niv said:

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

Well if you read the doc that's what it suggests, along with a 1 / 2 year inspection for new cars and the ability for importers to incentivise new car sales by buying out a certain number of miles.

Whilst it's a consultation I think it's pretty close to all that's needed.

I reckon...

1. Most people won't lie because the amount isn't significant.
2. A few carefully positioned cameras around UK's road network will catch the 80% of those that do lie.
3. Setting the bar high enough e.g. free one-way boat to North Korea followed by execution would be sufficient to nudge those still considering telling porkies (or the directors of companies selling products which enable it)
4. When the car is eventually sold, most main dealers can still spot mileage fraud correction and will probably be incentivised to care more about it.
5. Second hand car market will have fewer clocked vehicles.  Win:win

I read it as user supplied milage which I do not support (para 4.19). I think it should be taken by the MOT centre and recorded by them. In fact, they could also take the payment for the past year there and then. Very little extra resource needed in the grand scheme of things. I accept this is paying in arrears which some may not agree with, but I think its simpler for the masses.

And how would you deal with the large proportion of vehicles - probably about a quarter - which do not need an MOT?

Other than classics, which won't be EV anyway, everything will need an MOT eventually. 

It would be fine if the system was to pay for mileage (at actual usage) at an MOT, with the option of visiting an MOT station to pay the mileage tax indepedentally.
That way the worst case is someone takes a car to an MOT at 3 years and gets a 3-year bill, or they can go annually to break it down a bit. 

The fiddly part is changing ownership. Do you allow people to sell certify or do you carry the balance over to the new keeper? If you can go to an MOT station at any point to pay the balance then you could do that before the transfer and then potentially just owe the new keeper some change for the mileage from there to the exchange. 

facade

paul_c123 said:

facade said:

The only major difference is they imply that you actually do pay per single mile, rather than overpay as mileage blocks of 1000 or something.

I wonder what will happen if my dash display happens to fail at each MOT (leaving the speedometer displayed on the HUD) and they can't read the mileage. Will not being able to read an odometer become an MOT fail?

Nobody except you has mentioned blocks of (for example) 1000 miles. I don't see why they can't do it per mile, its not like the 3 times table is especially complicated.

Yes, they have hinted that a functioning odometer will be a legal requirement. Can't see why it won't be a good idea anyway - and it has side benefits too.

It would be a massive plus for HMRC if "they" made us buy blocks of miles of a minimum size (or have "mileage bands") as then you'd pay for say 1000 miles, even if you only used 1. "They" surely won't miss that trick, and will spin it as "more convenient"  etc.

It is what they still do with VED, and there is no reason in the 21st century with all those "computers" not to charge part months and refund part months, but they still continue like it is 1961. 

Car_54

MOT stations are not going to do these checks for nothing, and  indeed may not want to do them at all unless suitably compensated. I can't see it costing the driver less than a "nominal" £10, or possibly £20.

I'd also be surprised if you didn't need to make an appointment to do it. 

Clive_Woody

Car_54 said:

MOT stations are not going to do these checks for nothing, and  indeed may not want to do them at all unless suitably compensated. I can't see it costing the driver less than a "nominal" £10, or possibly £20.

I'd also be surprised if you didn't need to make an appointment to do it. 

That was exactly my thought, no business is going to say they're happy for motorist to turn up whenever they feel like it and they will record their mileage...all for free. There's going to be designated stations and as you say, a "nominal" fee charged for the privilege of providing your mileage. Presumably there will also be fines for late declarations of mileage

born_again

Car_54 said:

MOT stations are not going to do these checks for nothing, and  indeed may not want to do them at all unless suitably compensated. I can't see it costing the driver less than a "nominal" £10, or possibly £20.

I'd also be surprised if you didn't need to make an appointment to do it. 

Are you are here for the annual mileage reading. That will be £20 thank you.

They can't rely on 3rd parties to do all the work for nothing... 
Also what about when they miss read the mileage, or it gets switched to KM? Now there is a nice little trick each year 🤣
On my car it does not show Km or miles, simply the reading 

Mildly_Miffed

Grey_Critic said:

I personally choose not to have a Smart Meter but I am well aware that at some point I will have no choice. The same will apply to vehicles

I want a smart meter. I've been on the waiting list to have one fitted for two years.

The latest is that I'm not on the waiting list, because they don't think we have enough mobile signal to support one.