Let's speculate on how PPM will work.

facade

They've got years to sort this out, but I suggest

It will work on an honesty system of mileage declaration, with hollow threats of jail sentences (Trial without Jury of course as proposed) for "correcting the mileage" (but they really won't care, as the majority won't do it, and anything they raise off people who "correct" is a bonus)

Then they ought to give you 1000 "free" miles with your VED (to make it look like they care)

Then you buy mileage in blocks of 5000 thereafter, so 1001-6000 miles costs £150, 6001-11,000 costs another £150, so £300 overall.

This gives them a way to push the average 7000 mile driver into overpaying make it fair for all.

(of course fair would be to sell 1000 mile blocks for £30, but then the average driver only pays £180/210, not £300)

Refunds/adjustments can be in unused whole blocks of 5000, same as VED refunds unused whole months, or charges a whole month for one day.

Of course, we make the Keeper responsible for the payment, as it will be impossible to identify & charge the driver (despite the headlines "drivers to pay by the mile")

Lease companies will simply pay it up front based on your lease mileage allowance, say 10,000 a year = £300, and bill you £360 as it will be a recharge, not a disbursement so they have to charge you VAT.

If they refund unused blocks you won't get the VAT back (and there will likely be a reasonable admin charge + VAT)

Selling blocks means that they can easily add the index linking (rounded up to the nearest tenner) 

Buying/selling? The mileage is entered when you sell and transfer to trade/keeper (which generates a bill or a refund), and when you buy and transfer the V5 to your name, so you can start your keepership by paying VED and buying mileage blocks. (Or declare SORN)

Let's see how close I am, and I've saved them £2billion in consultancy fees!

WellKnownSid

You are too late, it's already been worked out.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69260d23aca6213a492dd0a2/Consultation_on_the_Introduction_of_eVED.pdf

Mildly_Miffed

WellKnownSid said:

You are too late, it's already been worked out.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69260d23aca6213a492dd0a2/Consultation_on_the_Introduction_of_eVED.pdf

Hardly...

That's the government asking the population and the industry for their thoughts on how to do it.

"We're thinking along these lines - but what are we missing?"

From that doc...

Chapter 5
Summary of questions
1. Do you have any views on the government’s proposal for the design and scope of eVED?
2. What should the government consider when developing guidance that supports motorists to estimate their mileage?
3. How could technology make eVED easier and simpler for businesses and motorists to comply with?
4. Would you support the consideration of technological solutions on an opt-in basis, in future?
5. What should the government consider when designing the system for managing under and over payments of eVED?
6. The government intends to engage with garages on MOT fees and the costs of mileage checks. Are there other steps the government should take to support MOT garages to prepare for eVED?
7. Do you agree that MOT garages are well placed to be accredited providers of mileage checks?
8. Are there alternative approaches for checking mileage in the first three years after a car is registered (pre-MOT age)?
9. What impact will the proposed approach for eVED collection have on fleets and leasing businesses?
10. What should the government consider to minimise administrative burdens and complexity for these businesses?
11. What should the government consider to ensure the overall approach to tax reporting and collection is fair?
12. Which life events and other considerations should the government consider when building flexibility for changes in circumstances into the eVED scheme?
13. Do you agree with the proposed approach for car lifecycle events?
14. Is there anything further the government should consider when designing the arrangements for car lifecycle events?
15. What should the government consider when developing an overall compliance approach to prevent user error, avoidance and fraud?

16. What should the government consider when designing the penalties regime within eVED, to ensure fairness to all motorists?

April 2028 at the earliest before it gets implemented.

Paying just 3p/mile in fuel duty on petrol or diesel, including VAT, would currently require 106mpg. 

Niv

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

WellKnownSid

Niv said:

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

Well if you read the doc that's what it suggests, along with a 1 / 2 year inspection for new cars and the ability for importers to incentivise new car sales by buying out a certain number of miles.

Whilst it's a consultation I think it's pretty close to all that's needed.

I reckon...

1. Most people won't lie because the amount isn't significant.
2. A few carefully positioned cameras around UK's road network will catch the 80% of those that do lie.
3. Setting the bar high enough e.g. free one-way boat to North Korea followed by execution would be sufficient to nudge those still considering telling porkies (or the directors of companies selling products which enable it)
4. When the car is eventually sold, most main dealers can still spot mileage fraud correction and will probably be incentivised to care more about it.
5. Second hand car market will have fewer clocked vehicles.  Win:win

Goudy

I'm not sure claiming pre paid charges back would be easy to work.
In other countries that use a similar system it just moves with the car. Sell it with 10,000 left and the new owner benefits. 
You can't claim fuel duty back on what's in the tank when you sell a ICE.

I think there could be some simple checks put in place.
It could become a requirement to report the current mileage when transfer of ownership is done by both the seller and buyer (trader in case it's put in trade).

And then of course it's recorded every year at the MOT after three years, but that could change.
They could introduce a mileage check every year.
After three years it would be part of the MOT but after one and two years you might have to take it to a MOT station just to have it's mileage checked and recorded.

But writing that, I have no doubt that whatever system they put in place is going to come from what someone else is using already and the only "dumb" system I can think of is the New Zealand RUC system.

So you buy a block of mileage on a sticker and put it in your windscreen.
The sale of the sticker will be logged and uploaded onto the same database used for ANPR, so anyone caught running around without a valid sticker is fined into poverty and eventually the stickers/mileage should tally up with the mileages recorded when the vehicle is presented at MOT.

If they don't, they know who the RK is/was and it's an automatic fine.

born_again

Lets face it, there are thousands out there that do not tax, insure or MOT their vehicles.
So they will just carry on abusing the system while the honest of use pay.

No matter how it is worked. All they are looking at is the cheapest solution. That involves the least work on their part & allows them to blame anyone but themselves, if it goes wrong.


Make punishment for failure to pay & tax, insure, MOT car is taken & crushed. No if's no buts. If it's not their car tough luck. They then will face the fallout from that.

Niv

WellKnownSid said:

Niv said:

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

Well if you read the doc that's what it suggests, along with a 1 / 2 year inspection for new cars and the ability for importers to incentivise new car sales by buying out a certain number of miles.

Whilst it's a consultation I think it's pretty close to all that's needed.

I reckon...

1. Most people won't lie because the amount isn't significant.
2. A few carefully positioned cameras around UK's road network will catch the 80% of those that do lie.
3. Setting the bar high enough e.g. free one-way boat to North Korea followed by execution would be sufficient to nudge those still considering telling porkies (or the directors of companies selling products which enable it)
4. When the car is eventually sold, most main dealers can still spot mileage fraud correction and will probably be incentivised to care more about it.
5. Second hand car market will have fewer clocked vehicles.  Win:win

I read it as user supplied milage which I do not support (para 4.19). I think it should be taken by the MOT centre and recorded by them. In fact, they could also take the payment for the past year there and then. Very little extra resource needed in the grand scheme of things. I accept this is paying in arrears which some may not agree with, but I think its simpler for the masses.

paul_c123

Everyone stay calm! Its okay! The DVLA are going to administer it, so it will all run smoothly, nobody needs to worry at all.

Car_54

Niv said:

WellKnownSid said:

Niv said:

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

Well if you read the doc that's what it suggests, along with a 1 / 2 year inspection for new cars and the ability for importers to incentivise new car sales by buying out a certain number of miles.

Whilst it's a consultation I think it's pretty close to all that's needed.

I reckon...

1. Most people won't lie because the amount isn't significant.
2. A few carefully positioned cameras around UK's road network will catch the 80% of those that do lie.
3. Setting the bar high enough e.g. free one-way boat to North Korea followed by execution would be sufficient to nudge those still considering telling porkies (or the directors of companies selling products which enable it)
4. When the car is eventually sold, most main dealers can still spot mileage fraud correction and will probably be incentivised to care more about it.
5. Second hand car market will have fewer clocked vehicles.  Win:win

I read it as user supplied milage which I do not support (para 4.19). I think it should be taken by the MOT centre and recorded by them. In fact, they could also take the payment for the past year there and then. Very little extra resource needed in the grand scheme of things. I accept this is paying in arrears which some may not agree with, but I think its simpler for the masses.

And how would you deal with the large proportion of vehicles - probably about a quarter - which do not need an MOT?

Niv

Car_54 said:

Niv said:

WellKnownSid said:

Niv said:

Its daft making people declare it as many will just lie. Milage is already recorded when you get an MOT so why not get the MOT centre to report it electronically the same why they must declare an MOT pass...
Could also double up as a perk of getting a new car as there is no MOT so no milage declaration (I am sure people wouldn't like that though).

Well if you read the doc that's what it suggests, along with a 1 / 2 year inspection for new cars and the ability for importers to incentivise new car sales by buying out a certain number of miles.

Whilst it's a consultation I think it's pretty close to all that's needed.

I reckon...

1. Most people won't lie because the amount isn't significant.
2. A few carefully positioned cameras around UK's road network will catch the 80% of those that do lie.
3. Setting the bar high enough e.g. free one-way boat to North Korea followed by execution would be sufficient to nudge those still considering telling porkies (or the directors of companies selling products which enable it)
4. When the car is eventually sold, most main dealers can still spot mileage fraud correction and will probably be incentivised to care more about it.
5. Second hand car market will have fewer clocked vehicles.  Win:win

I read it as user supplied milage which I do not support (para 4.19). I think it should be taken by the MOT centre and recorded by them. In fact, they could also take the payment for the past year there and then. Very little extra resource needed in the grand scheme of things. I accept this is paying in arrears which some may not agree with, but I think its simpler for the masses.

And how would you deal with the large proportion of vehicles - probably about a quarter - which do not need an MOT?

They address that in the consultation doc. Those that don't have an MOT take it for an annual read, at an MOT centre.