EV pay per mile - disabled drivers

MyRealNameToo

Depends on how complex they want the PPM to be. Many years ago was discuss telematics with a provider in connection with PAYG insurance and they were willing to give away all the hardware and data collection etc. When asked why, they thought PPM would come about and thought it would be more advanced than a simple £x per 1 mile but factor in time of day, type of road etc. Firstly they thought their data (anonymised) would be valuable to government departments for doing their analysis/proposals and 2 they assumed the solution would depend on telematics and so being the provider with the most cars on the road today with one of your transponders in place could increase your chances in any vendor selection process. 

Herzlos

It could be something more like income tax / self assessements where predict a mileage and make contributions for it monthly, and at the end of the year (MOT) what you pay is adjusted based on how far over/under you are. 

It's the easiest to administer and avoids any outrage related to the car reporting the mileage automatically in some way.

Something like a smart meter setup where it sends your mileage once a month and sends a bill based on that would be the best way to do it, but a lot of people would find that too intrusive and object out of principle.

But what we do know is that it's not suddenly going to make EV's more expensive than ICE cars. It's quite likely that a pay-per-mile tax would apply to either everyone or all new cars from a start date. It'll also mean everyone pays a bit more than previously. 

Exodi

Goudy said:
There are less intrusive ways to record and police the charge.

Something as simple as you stating your own mileage on your yearly VED application and again when you sell and MOT the car.

A simple program could then check your have been reporting the correct mileage and paying the right amount.
If you haven't, the RK at the time of the "offence" gets a bill and a fine.

Simple in theory, less so in reality.

I would wager that very few people could tell you their annual mileage if you asked - I only know mine because I use a company car and have to keep a record of it. I suspect my wife wouldn't have the faintest idea. Likely we'd need to dig out previous MOT records and work out the difference each year or work out what her drive to work and back is, multiply it by working days of the year and then add a chunk on for driving to the shops or to see friends or what have you.

You can't expect everyone to be so astute, after all, the nation is infamously filled with people who are 'bad at Maths'.

I understand why you would suggest that there should be fines (to prevent me declaring 1 mile, putting all the saved duty in an interest generating account and then paying it when my underestimation comes to light), however you take all of the genuine mistake with you.

E.g. Lost your job, find a new one but with a longer commute? Fine

Wife is pregnant so can't drive, so you do all the driving for a while? Fine

Etc.

If that is the intention, you'd should be able to change your declaration, I guess in a similar way to how you can update your online personal tax account. You should also be able to reduce it, should you lose your job but not find a new one or you are the wife who can't drive!

EssexExile

Exodi said:

I would avoid using the word 'tracking' as you'll have people up in arms!

While I believe many EV's have cellular networking capabilities (which allows their apps to work), I don't think this is the case for PHEV's which (I'm no mechanic) generally do not have any networking capabilities to self-report on mileage. Of course there's another argument about the fairness of PHEV's paying the same rate per mile, but one for another day.

Outside of technology, while I agree that it would be easier not to rely on a significant part of the population to start self reporting mileage, politically I have a feeling the general public will not like the idea that the government would have access to their live mileage - you saw all the drama around digital ID. People can be quite defensive of providing data to the government.

As to the OP's question, it is not a fair comparison. It is a replacement of fuel duty, which disabled drivers are not sheltered from.

Not just EVs, my petrol car knows where it is all the time and puts the mileage on the app.

Exodi

EssexExile said:

Exodi said:

I would avoid using the word 'tracking' as you'll have people up in arms!

While I believe many EV's have cellular networking capabilities (which allows their apps to work), I don't think this is the case for PHEV's which (I'm no mechanic) generally do not have any networking capabilities to self-report on mileage. Of course there's another argument about the fairness of PHEV's paying the same rate per mile, but one for another day.

Outside of technology, while I agree that it would be easier not to rely on a significant part of the population to start self reporting mileage, politically I have a feeling the general public will not like the idea that the government would have access to their live mileage - you saw all the drama around digital ID. People can be quite defensive of providing data to the government.

As to the OP's question, it is not a fair comparison. It is a replacement of fuel duty, which disabled drivers are not sheltered from.

Not just EVs, my petrol car knows where it is all the time and puts the mileage on the app.

Oh that's cool, my wifes 2021 MG HS PHEV does not (which surprised me).

I guess my point was while some cars have cellular capabilities, others do not, so you couldn't rely on that to self-report mileage.

Herzlos

Exodi said:

Goudy said:
There are less intrusive ways to record and police the charge.

Something as simple as you stating your own mileage on your yearly VED application and again when you sell and MOT the car.

A simple program could then check your have been reporting the correct mileage and paying the right amount.
If you haven't, the RK at the time of the "offence" gets a bill and a fine.

Simple in theory, less so in reality.

I would wager that very few people could tell you their annual mileage if you asked - I only know mine because I use a company car and have to keep a record of it. I suspect my wife wouldn't have the faintest idea. Likely we'd need to dig out previous MOT records and work out the difference each year or work out what her drive to work and back is, multiply it by working days of the year and then add a chunk on for driving to the shops or to see friends or what have you.

You can't expect everyone to be so astute, after all, the nation is infamously filled with people who are 'bad at Maths'.

I understand why you would suggest that there should be fines (to prevent me declaring 1 mile, putting all the saved duty in an interest generating account and then paying it when my underestimation comes to light), however you take all of the genuine mistake with you.

E.g. Lost your job, find a new one but with a longer commute? Fine

Wife is pregnant so can't drive, so you do all the driving for a while? Fine

Etc.

If that is the intention, you'd should be able to change your declaration, I guess in a similar way to how you can update your online personal tax account. You should also be able to reduce it, should you lose your job but not find a new one or you are the wife who can't drive!

But we already do that for insurance. Every person getting a quote is asked what their annual mileage is, and some leeway is given for changes in circumstances, i.e. if you say 10k do 11k it's fine, but if you say 10k and do 30k it's not. Plus it's on MOT certificates and most invoices, so it shouldn't be hard to work out. 

Any system would need some flexibilty in that regard if doing anything in advance, to avoid penalising people for getting it wrong. 

I think we're grossly overthinking it. 

ComicGeek

I heard it's only going to be implemented from 2028 (and following consultation), so gives them a couple of years to spectacularly fail to implement a simple system...

Goudy

I think it could be bracketed, so the set pence per mile is set (at budget) then the prices of the brackets are worked out.

So lets say it's 3p per mile for this year and the brackets could be:
0 to 5,000 you pay £150
5,001 to 10,000  you pay £300 and so on.

You choose one, pay up front and have the ability to top up (if they feel generous, round down)

The payments could be divided into 12 months for the cases where you sell the car on, this would mean you only get whole divisions back.

VED applications, keeper changes and MOT's would monitor mileages and those that abuse the system pay a heavy fine.

laidbackgjr

The problem with MOT mileages etc, is that if I take my car overseas and do mileage there, I would still be taxed on that mileage in the UK, so not sure simple mileage records really work. I think it will have to be some form of tracking app installed in the vehicle and reporting mileage only in the UK.

Grey_Critic

It was only a matter of time before this same about. Whilst there has been talk about it for years the Tax Take from Petrol and Diesel has been very lucrative and easy to apply. There is also the fact that technology has made great strides making it easy to apply.

How can EV drivers be surprised that it is going to be introduced, did they think they would not be charged? It is just the same with the Road Fund Licence - EVs were exempt but no longer.

No government can afford to pass up the tax/duty they make from fuel hence opting for PPM to replace it. Will be interesting come the budget what other bright ideas they come up with.