EV pay per mile - disabled drivers

MouldyOldDough

In all fairness - if PPM is implemented by the government - they need to give a 100% discount  for disabled drivers - in the same way that disabled drivers, on high rate mobility PIP are given free road tax - this additional charge is just an addition to Road Tax ........

Keep_pedalling

MouldyOldDough said:

In all fairness - if PPM is implemented by the government - they need to give a 100% discount  for disabled drivers - in the same way that disabled drivers, on high rate mobility PIP are given free road tax - this additional charge is just an addition to Road Tax ........

EV drivers now pay VED (aka raid tax) PPM is to compensate for loss of fuel duty as more people switch to EVs and disabled drivers are not exempt from those, so I think your argument has a serious flaw in it. 

born_again

While I have a disabled wife, I do not agree that there should be a 100% discount.

TBH, the whole PBM has been rumbling on for decades & is no nearer to being a workable solution.

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??
I know when CAZ was being introduced in our area it cost £20 Million. Covid happened & it was scrapped.
So to introduce a countrywide PBM system would cost far more than it would take for years, never mind the timeframe for getting a IT payment system running.

Far more sense to stick to VED, which has worked, as well as it can since it came out.

MouldyOldDough

born_again said:

While I have a disabled wife, I do not agree that there should be a 100% discount.

TBH, the whole PBM has been rumbling on for decades & is no nearer to being a workable solution.

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??
I know when CAZ was being introduced in our area it cost £20 Million. Covid happened & it was scrapped.
So to introduce a countrywide PBM system would cost far more than it would take for years, never mind the timeframe for getting a IT payment system running.

Far more sense to stick to VED, which has worked, as well as it can since it came out.

I very much doubt whether they would rely on self reporting mileage - more likely feedback direct from the EV itself ..... the technology already exists (simple tracking)

WellKnownSid

Keep_pedalling said:

MouldyOldDough said:

In all fairness - if PPM is implemented by the government - they need to give a 100% discount  for disabled drivers - in the same way that disabled drivers, on high rate mobility PIP are given free road tax - this additional charge is just an addition to Road Tax ........

EV drivers now pay VED (aka raid tax) PPM is to compensate for loss of fuel duty as more people switch to EVs and disabled drivers are not exempt from those, so I think your argument has a serious flaw in it. 

Disabled drivers don't have to pay VED but are obviously subject to fuel duty.  Surely it therefore depends whether the Government call this a fuel duty or vehicle excise duty.

Exodi

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

While I have a disabled wife, I do not agree that there should be a 100% discount.

TBH, the whole PBM has been rumbling on for decades & is no nearer to being a workable solution.

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??
I know when CAZ was being introduced in our area it cost £20 Million. Covid happened & it was scrapped.
So to introduce a countrywide PBM system would cost far more than it would take for years, never mind the timeframe for getting a IT payment system running.

Far more sense to stick to VED, which has worked, as well as it can since it came out.

I very much doubt whether they would rely on self reporting mileage - more likely feedback direct from the EV itself ..... the technology already exists (simple tracking)

I would avoid using the word 'tracking' as you'll have people up in arms!

While I believe many EV's have cellular networking capabilities (which allows their apps to work), I don't think this is the case for PHEV's which (I'm no mechanic) generally do not have any networking capabilities to self-report on mileage. Of course there's another argument about the fairness of PHEV's paying the same rate per mile, but one for another day.

Outside of technology, while I agree that it would be easier not to rely on a significant part of the population to start self reporting mileage, politically I have a feeling the general public will not like the idea that the government would have access to their live mileage - you saw all the drama around digital ID. People can be quite defensive of providing data to the government.

As to the OP's question, it is not a fair comparison. It is a replacement of fuel duty, which disabled drivers are not sheltered from.

MyRealNameToo

MouldyOldDough said:

In all fairness - if PPM is implemented by the government - they need to give a 100% discount  for disabled drivers - in the same way that disabled drivers, on high rate mobility PIP are given free road tax - this additional charge is just an addition to Road Tax ........

Why do they need to? They dont waive duty on fuel for disabled drivers which is a closer alignment to the proposed PPM given that electric vehicles already pay VED separately. 

Ultimately it's a governmental decision on what should be waived for whom and if these are means tested or anything else. Personally would question if you can afford a brand new RR Culliman why the VED should be waived even if you have significant mobility issues. 

facade

I've seen the deliberately leaked proposals, and I still think an electricity levy would work better.

Just charge a 9p a kWh tax on the low EV rates, people will still go for them as they would still undercut domestic rate considerably.

If you are using the EV rate to charge a storage bank, then you are still winning over domestic rate.

If you have a smart charger, then it can snitch you up with the exact amount of kWh, or they can just let your smart meter snitch you up.

In the UK we are not used to the US system of paying a calculated tax at the end of the year, we like pay as you go taxes.

On the other hand, if VED included 1000 miles then you pay 3p a mile for any more, I'd be perfectly happy!

Herzlos

born_again said:

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??

There's no reason you couldn't do it at MOT, though owners in the first 3 years would either need to pre-pay something or be hit with a treble bill on first inspection. 

The bigger issue is if cars are sold mid MOT cycle; you'd need some mechanism for the old keeper to declare mileage and pay up to that point with the new owner taking over. But then that's what we already do for gas/electric meters so I don't think it's that big a deal. 

Exodi

Herzlos said:

born_again said:

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??

There's no reason you couldn't do it at MOT, though owners in the first 3 years would either need to pre-pay something or be hit with a treble bill on first inspection. 

The bigger issue is if cars are sold mid MOT cycle; you'd need some mechanism for the old keeper to declare mileage and pay up to that point with the new owner taking over. But then that's what we already do for gas/electric meters so I don't think it's that big a deal. 

The bigger issue also applies for new owners as not all owners will keep the car for 3 years until its first MOT.

As you say though, this could be resolved by just having a record of the mileage somewhere as part of the transaction.

Goudy

Herzlos said:

born_again said:

Can't do it via MOT, as no mot for 3 years, could you trust people to report correct mileage each year on payment of VED??

There's no reason you couldn't do it at MOT, though owners in the first 3 years would either need to pre-pay something or be hit with a treble bill on first inspection. 

The bigger issue is if cars are sold mid MOT cycle; you'd need some mechanism for the old keeper to declare mileage and pay up to that point with the new owner taking over. But then that's what we already do for gas/electric meters so I don't think it's that big a deal. 

That wouldn't suit the government and that is what this is all about.

It'll be an upfront charge for the year based on your predicted mileage with a option to top up, most likely divided into whole months like VED.

That way they win and win again.
The original owner will lose part of the month and the next owner will need to pay the fee from the beginning of the month. 

Obviously any system is open to abuse, so there will be strict penalties for abusing the system that will also generate the government billions every year and will keep creeping up just like the original price per mile.

TFL make around a third of the Ulez and CC income from PCN's.
I can't see a national road pricing scheme being designed to make anything less than that. 

There are less intrusive ways to record and police the charge.
Something as simple as you stating your own mileage on your yearly VED application and again when you sell and MOT the car.

A simple program could then check your have been reporting the correct mileage and paying the right amount.
If you haven't, the RK at the time of the "offence" gets a bill and a fine.