PCN - Napier Parking at Station Hill , Chippenham

lily10

Hi everyone,
As keeper I've received a PCN from Napier Parking for a 6 minute stop in the Station Car park ( also shared with Sainsbury's) This is a very small car park of about 20-30 spaces. The driver collected someone from the station and didn't look to put a ticket on as the signs weren't clear and they said that they could have been popping into Sainsbury's anyway. A £100 fine mistake!

As keeper I am currently trying to establish if this carpark is owned by the Railway (as then the case could be appealed re bylaws / POFA 2012 not applying) I am struggling to find the information. To obtain the info through Land Registry will cost nearly £60. 

GWR have told me that Parkopedea own the land but this seems odd to me. Does anyone know of a connection between Parkopedea and Napier parking? I don't trust this detail entirely and still wonder if this is railway land. I've emailed Napier Parking but they can take 28 days to reply to emails!

Any advice would be welcome at this stage - I have looked at the NEWBIES thread but I cannot appeal to the landowner without knowing who they are.

Thank you

Coupon-mad

To obtain the info through Land Registry will cost me nearly £60.

No it's £3 or £4 for a copy of the register.

But I wouldn't bother as it won't assist and there is no fair, impartial or independent appeal on offer with IPC firms like Napier.

Parkopedia is a website resource! They don't own car parks! GWR are wrong.

Just ignore Napier when they inevitably reject your appeal. Tell them and their debt crawlers if  you ever move house within 6 years.

That is all.

DO NOT WOBBLE AND PAY AT ANY STAGE. DO NOT PAY TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

ChirpyChicken

You were looking at a scam website
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry is the genuine site

@Coupon-mad the LR hiked thier prices in April to £7 a copy!

lily10

Coupon-mad said:

To obtain the info through Land Registry will cost me nearly £60.

No it's £3 or £4 for a copy of the register.

But I wouldn't bother as it won't assist and there is no fair, impartial or independent appeal on offer with IPC firms like Napier.

Parkopedia is a website resource! They don't own car parks! GWR are wrong.

Just ignore Napier when they inevitably reject your appeal. Tell them and their debt crawlers if  you ever move house within 6 years.

That is all.

DO NOT WOBBLE AND PAY AT ANY STAGE. DO NOT PAY TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

Thank you for this reassurance - I definitely won't wobble and pay! I have been through this with APCOA a couple years ago in a station carpark and it went nowhere.( Thanks to this forum)  This is why I was trying to establish the landowner for this case.

Interestingly I have just driven over to take some photos of the entrance and signage which I may post on here for further advice at some point. Apart from one sign when entering the carpark that says it is private land there is no indication anywhere on any sign who the landowner is and who Napier Parking act on behalf of. I'm not sure if I'm correct or not but I thought this was a legal requirement? 

Coupon-mad

Yes and no. PPCs almost never show landowner details on signs.

But technically it looks like the DMCC Act 2024 does require it. One to push for in future IMHO.

Altior

Sainsbury's shoppers fined at confusing Chippenham car park | The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald

Coupon-mad

Altior said:

Sainsbury's shoppers fined at confusing Chippenham car park | The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald

Napier reportedly put up a virtual two fingers in a demonstration of what looks like zero consumer ethics (as often seen from IPC firms):

“We have no plans to erect more signage, there are already circa nine groupings of parking signs and a prominent pay station.

“If Sainsbury’s customers feel signage could be clearer, then really it’s not related to our messaging.”

Errr... lots of victims suggest it IS.

lily10

Altior said:

Sainsbury's shoppers fined at confusing Chippenham car park | The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald

This is really useful - thank you.
I took a load of photos yesterday but this one is particularly confusing in my opinion.
It is a very small car park and you can drive in and round it anticlockwise. It would appear that the left hand side is 'Sainsbury's' and allows 45 mins free parking ( managed by Eurocarparks) and the right hand side is Pay & Display ( managed by Napier Parking) .
This photo displays Sainsbury's colours (!) and to me suggests that both car parks could possibly be Sains. It really isn't clear. I would interpret this as Pay & Display if you are going to park for longer than the 45 mins given free to Sains customers. 

lily10

Coupon-mad said:

Yes and no. PPCs almost never show landowner details on signs.

But technically it looks like the DMCC Act 2024 does require it. One to push for in future IMHO.

This is the response I received this morning from Napier after asking them for landowner details:

You have requested details of the landowner; however, we are not prepared to disclose this information, nor are we obliged to do so.

 

In some cases, we have a duty to protect personal data under The GDPR 2018. In situations where we do not own the land, the landowner or the landowner’s lawful agent has appointed us to manage the car park, we occupy the land and are the Creditor for the purpose of recovering unpaid parking charges.  

 

Any complaints or appeals should therefore be forwarded to us for consideration. If you wish to appeal a Parking Charge you have received, please complete our appeals form on our website www.napierparking.co.uk

 

Coupon-mad

lily10 said:

Altior said:

Sainsbury's shoppers fined at confusing Chippenham car park | The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald

This is really useful - thank you.
I took a load of photos yesterday but this one is particularly confusing in my opinion.
It is a very small car park and you can drive in and round it anticlockwise. It would appear that the left hand side is 'Sainsbury's' and allows 45 mins free parking ( managed by Eurocarparks) and the right hand side is Pay & Display ( managed by Napier Parking) .
This photo displays Sainsbury's colours (!) and to me suggests that both car parks could possibly be Sains. It really isn't clear. I would interpret this as Pay & Display if you are going to park for longer than the 45 mins given free to Sains customers. 

It's all open; no clear difference between the bays. Looks like a deliberate trap.

Raise a complaint with your MP and/or get on to that newspaper. Maybe their journalist knows who owns that side of the bollards.

No paying Napier.  Good people don't pay unfair PCNs.

lily10

Hi,
I have raised a complaint with my MP and sent details to the newspaper as suggested - thanks for that.

I need to submit my ( pointless I understand) appeal to Napier Parking but before I do please could I get clarification on a couple of things re the ANPR cameras.

1) Do the ANPR cameras actually take static images or video? I am curious as to how they would prove that  the driver spent 6 minutes within the Napier Parking side of the car park and not the Sainsbury's side ( Eurocarparks). As the carpark is small and you have to effectively drive around the whole thing  the driver could have spent 6 minutes driving round waiting for a space; 4 minutes of that time might have been on the Sains side!

2) If this did go to court can they use the images / video in Court. If I request ALL images in my first appeal are they legally obliged to provide these or only the ones they choose? 

Thank you.