Caught speeding again - seeking advice on challenging it

SidJ

Your user name is LightingBolt and you've been caught four times on the same strech of road. Says it all really

daveyjp

Getting a driving licence is relatively essy, keeping it is far harder and will become ever more so as tech increases. 

If you struggle to know what speed limits are or keep within the limit when you do know, it is now time for some additional training.  Understanding why you lack observation and monitoring skills will be the key to sorting this issue out.

Altior

To be fair to the OP, there are seemingly 'revenue raising' speed traps, so a little crossover with parking tickets. Oldsters will recall it used to be far worse with gatso cams deliberately hidden and camouflaged to catch the unwary out. Now of course they have to be visible and I believe, placed where there is evidence of a heightened risk. 

I myself got 'caught' 35 in a 30, right near my home by a mobile speed trap near a school BUT it was 6am! Obviously no kids in sight for 2 hours and empty road in broad daylight. I was no risk to anyone but technically broke the law, and had to take the speed awareness course on the chin. 

Rightly or wrongly OP, the MSE forum base is not really a place where you'll get much sympathy for breaking the law, even if you think you've got a reasonable/justifiable defence. Especially repeat offending! 

Keep_pedalling

It’s pointless trying to fight this, you will have to go to court plead not guilty and after arguing your case you will be convicted still get the points plus a much larger fine.

All you can do is to try to avoid getting caught agin. Drive like a nun ( I think the Pope tends to be driven), use technology to help you (not 100% effective but will reduce your risk) use satnav even on familiar routes to warn of speed cameras, if you car has it use adaptive cruise control to respond to changes in speed limits. 

elsien

it may be a counterintuitive bit of  road, but as someone who managed to get two speeding tickets in the same place because of variable speed limits on the motorway, there is no chance I am going to forget to check there in future. If I’d managed  to get through it, it would be permanently drummed into my brain.

This is not on the road or the signage or the decisions by the people putting signs and cameras up,  this is on you. 

The_Slithy_Tove

So far from this thread, amongst all the cries of "it's not fair" and general victimhood, I have not seen a single thing that could be classed as a legal defence to the charge of speeding. As long as the limit is adequately signed (which in a 30 may only be the presence of street lights), then there is very little wriggle room: it's an absolute offence. If you have an issue with the limit itself, take it up with your elected representative.

You can take it to FTLA if you like, but don't try the same excuses you have here. You'll get very short shrift.

James_Poisson

LightningBolt said:

Coupon-mad said:

You 'll be best posting on a different forum (not MSE). We major in private parking here. The experts on offences like this are on FTLA.

Like where?  If I knew of a better forum to post on then I would have done so.

Coupon has told you but for the avoidance of doubt https://www.ftla.uk/

But I doubt you will get anywhere with this, I get your frustration I would feel the same, but you are taking it out on the wrong people (including one solicitor) giving opinions/advice you asked for in a forum where anything polite can be offered.

It's your choice how you use the information given but you need to take it for what it is and make a judgement.

user1977

The_Slithy_Tove said:

So far from this thread, amongst all the cries of "it's not fair" and general victimhood, I have not seen a single thing that could be classed as a legal defence to the charge of speeding. As long as the limit is adequately signed (which in a 30 may only be the presence of street lights), then there is very little wriggle room: it's an absolute offence. If you have an issue with the limit itself, take it up with your elected representative.

Indeed, "it's not fair" isn't a defence, and the "I need my licence" stuff is only relevant if you're on the point of receiving a ban, it's not relevant if you're just going from 6 to 9 points.
The only possible (but unlikely) defences I can see are:

* the limit isn't legally valid (because there's a problem with signage or the Traffic Regulation Order) - which seems unlikely if it's not a new limit or camera and there are lots of previous customers who would have thought about it

* there was something wrong with the calibration of the camera (but I expect the prosecution have evidence of that to hand)

something wrong with the procedure up to this point (e.g. delay before sending the notice to keeper)
* as with any trial, the hope that the prosecution might slip up and you win by default (e.g. one of their witnesses doesn't show up or they simply drop the case because of a lack of resources)

But as already mentioned, there's the probably greater risk of the court handing down a bigger penalty than the fixed penalty would have been.

user1977

Johnersh said:

on 9 points you need to start driving like the pope 

I'm not sure how the current Pope drives, but his bio suggests he could be a bit of a boy racer:

As a teenager, he enjoyed driving recreationally. Throughout his life, he has frequently preferred driving long distances for journeys where most people would prefer to fly, such as from Philadelphia to Chicago, Brisbane to Sydney, and Chiclayo to Lima. He also repaired cars himself as a bishop in Chiclayo

vacheron

LightningBolt said:

Emmia said:

If this is a road you drive on regularly, you should be aware of the speed limit, and even more so as you've already been ticketed. 

You shouldn't be looking for speed camera signs and reducing your speed in response, you should be driving at the correct speed - and if you can't do that... Stop driving.

I wasn't "looking for speed camera signs and reducing your speed in response".  I am human and, as such, sometimes make mistakes.  That this camera has caught out many drivers (when I had a speed awareness course several of the participants admitted to being caught in the same spot) bears this out.

Penalty points on driving licences are meant to get dangerous drivers off the roads, not get human beings generally off the roads.

Yes, but how many of the "many" drivers have then gone on to make the same mistake, on the same stretch of road, not just once, but a further THREE times? 

LightningBolt said:

Renfrewman said:

Your observation whilst driving is clearly lacking,,,

I disagree.  There are lots of things to observe on the road, and as such it's easy to accidentally miss something from time to time.  I'm guessing you don't drive.

Yes, everyone can accidentally miss something from time to time. I do drive and I have been caught speeding 4 times in my 35 year driving career which has covered hundreds of thousands of miles all across the country on unfamilar roads.

However, I can still tell you exactly where each location was (no two locations were ever the same) and EVERY time I drive past these locations (even in some cases 30 years later), the voice in my head still says "I got caught there once" and I make sure that my speed is correct so it dosn't happen again. i.e. I used them as a learning experience, but it is clear from your responses that you would rather blame everyone else than learn from all your previous (and identical) mistakes which, ironically, is what could identify someone as a dangerous driver which you also consider yourself not to be. 

Clearly the fines / points approach is not getting the message across in your case, and this is the reason why the penalties ultimately increase into something you might remember.... and  "living in fear of being caught again and disqualified from driving" might just be the wake up call you need to stop continuing to be so inattentive behind the wheel.