Will / trust

Keep_pedalling

Skint_yet_Again said:

Thanks @Keep_pedalling the pecuniary bequest was going out of a codicil 3k & nothing about being free of IHT. If the exact terms of the will may change everything I am definitely going to have to see a solicitor. 

You are overthinking this. It only becomes an issue if the estate has a IHT liability and with this estate that is not the case, so the lack of such a clause makes no difference. Where no such clause exists in an estate that is IHT then pecuniary beneficiaries should have their bequests reduced proportionally, however at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries they could still be given their bequests in full.

A properly drafted will should cover this, our wills certainly have this clause in them. 

Skint_yet_Again

“.. at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries”

… does this mean we have to tell the other residual beneficiary (renounced executor) what the pecuniary beneficiary has been left in the will? This may cause some family problems 

mybestattempt

Skint_yet_Again said:

“.. at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries”

… does this mean we have to tell the other residual beneficiary (renounced executor) what the pecuniary beneficiary has been left in the will? This may cause some family problems 

As I understand it you and your two sisters are the executors of your Dad's will and are all residual beneficiaries.

The sister who has renounced as executor remains a residual beneficiary. 

Although you have only provided an extract and a reading of the whole will and codicil may give fuller context and a different meaning, my thoughts are that if anything "...is at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries" she must be informed and consulted.

So far as the amount of the pecuniary bequest is concerned the will becomes a public document and is published when probate is granted.

Your sister is also entitled to a copy of the estate accounts when the administration of the estate is finalised, so she will find out sooner or later.


  

Skint_yet_Again

mybestattempt said:

Skint_yet_Again said:

“.. at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries”

… does this mean we have to tell the other residual beneficiary (renounced executor) what the pecuniary beneficiary has been left in the will? This may cause some family problems 

As I understand it you and your two sisters are the executors of your Dad's will and are all residual beneficiaries.

The sister who has renounced as executor remains a residual beneficiary. 

Although you have only provided an extract and a reading of the whole will and codicil may give fuller context and a different meaning, my thoughts are that if anything "...is at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries" she must be informed and consulted.

So far as the amount of the pecuniary bequest is concerned the will becomes a public document and is published when probate is granted.

Your sister is also entitled to a copy of the estate accounts when the administration of the estate is finalised, so she will find out sooner or later.


  

Thanks @mybestattempt Nothing in the will about “at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries" just referring to the post below from Keep_pedalling said:

Skint_yet_Again said:

Thanks @Keep_pedalling the pecuniary bequest was going out of a codicil 3k & nothing about being free of IHT. If the exact terms of the will may change everything I am definitely going to have to see a solicitor. 

You are overthinking this. It only becomes an issue if the estate has a IHT liability and with this estate that is not the case, so the lack of such a clause makes no difference. Where no such clause exists in an estate that is IHT then pecuniary beneficiaries should have their bequests reduced proportionally, however at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries they could still be given their bequests in full.

A properly drafted will should cover this, our wills certainly have this clause in them. 

There is already partial family estrangement. The 2 executors / residual beneficiaries have told the 3rd renounced executor / residual beneficiary that we share the estate after a few small bequests & expenses/ debts. No one has asked to see the will / codicil. The estate is not liable to IHT. 

1). Are we able to show the pecuniary bequest & two specific bequests in the executor accounts without naming the beneficiaries of these bequests? (How does GDPR come into play with wills?). If anyone wants a copy of the will they can get one after probate. The addresses for the beneficiaries of these 3 bequests are not shown in the will / codicil. 

2). Do we need the agreement of the 3rd renounced executor/ residual beneficiary to give the pecuniary bequest £3k and 2 small specific bequests (personal items worth less than £100 each) ?

She may find out sooner or later but I would rather it was later. 😬 I saw a similar thread below. As always I appreciate any advice. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6282998/embarrassing-will-am-i-required-to-send-a-copy-accounts-to-all-beneficiaries/p1

mybestattempt

Skint_yet_Again said:

mybestattempt said:

Skint_yet_Again said:

“.. at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries”

… does this mean we have to tell the other residual beneficiary (renounced executor) what the pecuniary beneficiary has been left in the will? This may cause some family problems 

As I understand it you and your two sisters are the executors of your Dad's will and are all residual beneficiaries.

The sister who has renounced as executor remains a residual beneficiary. 

Although you have only provided an extract and a reading of the whole will and codicil may give fuller context and a different meaning, my thoughts are that if anything "...is at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries" she must be informed and consulted.

So far as the amount of the pecuniary bequest is concerned the will becomes a public document and is published when probate is granted.

Your sister is also entitled to a copy of the estate accounts when the administration of the estate is finalised, so she will find out sooner or later.


  

Thanks @mybestattempt Nothing in the will about “at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries" just referring to the post below from Keep_pedalling said:

Skint_yet_Again said:

Thanks @Keep_pedalling the pecuniary bequest was going out of a codicil 3k & nothing about being free of IHT. If the exact terms of the will may change everything I am definitely going to have to see a solicitor. 

You are overthinking this. It only becomes an issue if the estate has a IHT liability and with this estate that is not the case, so the lack of such a clause makes no difference. Where no such clause exists in an estate that is IHT then pecuniary beneficiaries should have their bequests reduced proportionally, however at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries they could still be given their bequests in full.

A properly drafted will should cover this, our wills certainly have this clause in them. 

There is already partial family estrangement. The 2 executors / residual beneficiaries have told the 3rd renounced executor / residual beneficiary that we share the estate after a few small bequests & expenses/ debts. No one has asked to see the will / codicil. The estate is not liable to IHT. 

1). Are we able to show the pecuniary bequest & two specific bequests in the executor accounts without naming the beneficiaries of these bequests? (How does GDPR come into play with wills?). If anyone wants a copy of the will they can get one after probate. The addresses for the beneficiaries of these 3 bequests are not shown in the will / codicil. 

2). Do we need the agreement of the 3rd renounced executor/ residual beneficiary to give the pecuniary bequest £3k and 2 small specific bequests (personal items worth less than £100 each) ?

She may find out sooner or later but I would rather it was later. 😬 I saw a similar thread below. As always I appreciate any advice. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6282998/embarrassing-will-am-i-required-to-send-a-copy-accounts-to-all-beneficiaries/p1

 Sorry, clearly I thought you were referring to the will and codicil and didn't connect your question to the preceding post.

I think the thread you linked covers the duty of the executors to follow the will, so I don't think your estranged sister needs to be consulted about the bequests in the will and any valid codicil.

I'm not sure about specifically naming every beneficiary in the estate accounts.

Others might, but I wouldn't begin to give advice on how potential family issues should be handled.

Keep_pedalling

Skint_yet_Again said:

“.. at the discretion of the residual beneficiaries”

… does this mean we have to tell the other residual beneficiary (renounced executor) what the pecuniary beneficiary has been left in the will? This may cause some family problems 

I was referring to the case where IHT is payable, but you have said this estate is within the 2 NRBs so I am really confused why you keep coming back to this. 

You can’t hide things where probate is concerned, all residual beneficiaries are entitled to a copy of the estate accounts and for a small fee the whole world will be able to read the will and any codicils. 

The one thing that they won’t be able to see is if any beneficiaries have made deeds of variation as they are not sent to the probate office so never get made public.

Skint_yet_Again

Thank you both. No intention of hiding anything just trying to carry out my dad’s wishes and keep the peace between the family while carrying out my legal duties. The legal duties come first. @Keep_pedalling sorry I missed the part where you were referring to IHT cases. 

Skint_yet_Again

Just a quick update. After several phone calls to the tax people I had a call from the technical dept who confirmed the trust must still be registered. If dad was the only trustee then I have to register him (deceased) and me as trustees and then close the trust. Then I was told to write a letter to the trust office stating what I have done and why as advised by xxx (persons name). 

Tresinia511

Sya, the thing i have taken from this is to keep away from trusts.  In the past I have thought about them for grandchildren but after seeing what you have had to go through i will not being doing it now! If you are able to share,  why was a trust set up in the first place,  as opposed to letting the normal will/ inheritance take place as mostly happens?