Divorce Advice!

Pablolufc

Emmia said:

Can I ask who initiated this divorce?

My wife did

Pablolufc

elsien said:

What she wants, and what you both need, I’m not the same thing. She will have to compromise on some of her wants. 

And there are a lot of families where although I’m sure the children would prefer their own room in an ideal world, they continue to share because not everyone can afford one bedroom per child.

Im happy to compromise and give her the majority of the equity. I just want to be able to buy my own place which I wont be able to do if I'm forced to stay on the mortgage 

Pablolufc

gwynlas said:

You are not responsible for housing your stepdaughter unless you have frmally adopted her  presumably she still sees her birth father and family.

Your wife is not entitled to a 4 bed detached house when as you say your children could share.

I have family in a similar situation who have invested in a sofa bed in order for daughters of 6 and 18 to have their own rooms, brothers share.

When buying a new property you could look at those where there is a downstairs study or snug that could serve as a bedroom.

No my step daughter is not adopted. She has both her dad and grandparents just down the road and tends to go from house to house which works well. I would only be looking for a 3 bedroom and I would like to think my wife would do the same.

ian1246

OP, if its 50/50 childcare are you going g to be doing pickups and drop off's at School, doctors appointments etc..?

If so, I'd advise you start right now and document it all.

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance

I'd draw your attention to this on the front page of the calculator:

"You will not have anything to pay through the Child Maintenance Service if you are:

• sharing care equally with the other parent"

So if you are genuinely sharing care 50/50 and are equally involved in the day to day care of your children, you absolutely should not be paying her a single £ in maintainance.

As for equity - you have £202,000. How much is a 3 / 4 bed semi or mid-terrace within reasonable distance of the School? What shared ownership options are nearby?
Get yourself on your local Housing Association sites looking into this.

When the wife said she has no intention of working full time or maximising your earnings - how was this communicated? 
Wife's under an obligation to maximise earnings.

I would suggest your best bet is to argue that the house needs to be sold to release the equity - if your having the children equally (evidence!!!) then your housing needs are as important as ex wives.

£150,000 or £175,000 equity should, in most of the country, be sufficient to cover a shared ownership purchase. With your ex's earnings level, she'd potentially be eligible for universal credit - meaning the rent on any unowned share of the house would be covered by housing allowance element.

That would leave you with £25,000 to £50,000 to purchase a property for yourself. The difference in shares is a reality you'll have to accept due to your income vs. Hers - your mortgage raising capacity is far higher than hers. 

However any extra equity she gets is either offset against her share of your pension or buys out your spousal maintainance obligation. 

Ultimately it sounds like she's going to argue she needs to stay in the house to meet her and children's housing needs - you need to be evidencing with a fine tooth comb your involvement with the children and provide evidence that there are viable housing options available to the ex.

You also need to be prepared for the ex, with the attitude she's displaying, to weaponise the children. The moment she realises you having the kids 50/50 removes her strongest card when it comes to the financial arrangement, she may well decide to restrict your access - thats where the evidence of the status quo of you *both* being equally involved with the children comes into play - since any child care arrangement will seek to keep the status quo.

The status quo prior to court-arrangements, however, can change. That means her blocking access to ensure she's the main parent could become the new status quo unless immediately legally challenged, but likewise if prior to separation she's the main day to day parent but post separation your now both equally involved, with this being the case for at least a few months... thats the new norm and status quo.

If you both have 2 children, insist as part of the financial settlement that the Child benefit for 1 is switched to you.

The reason i say this is you need to be laying the groundwork to offset any future CSA claim. The default position, if ex puts in a child maintainance claim, CSA take is whoever has child benefit = main resident parent and therefore the other pays child maintainance, even if night AND day care is equally 50/50.

It's then for you to supply evidence that the care is truly 50/50 - a statutory exception then exists and no Child Maintainance is due (hence the part on the calculator saying none is due). Having the child benefit for 1 of the children would form part of this evidence.

Other possible evidence:

- correspondence with Schools and nurseries i.e. varying hours, booking after school club, breakfast clubs etc..
- address of the children with official bodies i.e. council, NHS, Schools etc... Would suggest if the kids are staying 50/50, your address needs to be listed for at least 1 of them! (Don't let ex put hers for everything)
- NHS Correspondence i.e. appointments like dermatology or hearing tests often send letters about how it went and mentions which adult was present (I.e. mum or dad)

Ultimately 50/50 childcare means you genuinely actually *do* 50 / 50 of the childvare - that means School runs, time off work etc... If you are, then absolutely evidence it since without evidence, its entirely possible you could end up paying child maintaince as a result of the ex-wife claiming it and there being insufficient evidence for CSA to apply the exception.

If however its merely 50/50 on where the kids live i.e. nights at yours, but ex is still doing the day to day stuff, then you will owe child maintainance and the childcare isn't actually 50/50.

Edit: one other thing- get your figures on mortgageability firmed up.

I.e. £55,000 income might translate to around £247,500 mortgage borrowing capacity (4.5 times income) - which evidently would be insufficient to both stay on the existing mortgage and then cover your and childrens own housing needs. With a £25,000 or £50,000 deposit it would also mean the house you'd be able to afford would be broadly equal to one the ex could afford with a £150,000 / £175,000 deposit and her own limited mortgage raising capacity (4.5 times income) and/or shared ownership.

That would be the angle I'd combat her with - no emotions, just cold hard maths.

I'd also be sure to highlight the effect of the kids being at nursery/school and your having them 50/50, on your ex's capacity to work full time hours - thereby demonstrating it is a choice rather than a requirement.

RAS

With a 2 year old, you will both be required to pay for the childcare needed on the days when you are responsible for the child and do the drop offs and pick ups, plus ensure the 6 year old is dropped off and picked up from school, or arrange and fund after school care.

Pablolufc

ian1246 said:

OP, if its 50/50 childcare are you going g to be doing pickups and drop off's at School, doctors appointments etc..?

If so, I'd advise you start right now and document it all.

I'd draw your attention to this on the front page of the calculator:

"You will not have anything to pay through the Child Maintenance Service if you are:

• sharing care equally with the other parent"

So if you are genuinely sharing care 50/50 and are equally involved in the day to day care of your children, you absolutely should not be paying her a single £ in maintainance.

As for equity - you have £202,000. How much is a 3 / 4 bed semi or mid-terrace within reasonable distance of the School? What shared ownership options are nearby?
Get yourself on your local Housing Association sites looking into this.

When the wife said she has no intention of working full time or maximising your earnings - how was this communicated? 
Wife's under an obligation to maximise earnings.

I would suggest your best bet is to argue that the house needs to be sold to release the equity - if your having the children equally (evidence!!!) then your housing needs are as important as ex wives.

£150,000 or £175,000 equity should, in most of the country, be sufficient to cover a shared ownership purchase. With your ex's earnings level, she'd potentially be eligible for universal credit - meaning the rent on any unowned share of the house would be covered by housing allowance element.

That would leave you with £25,000 to £50,000 to purchase a property for yourself. The difference in shares is a reality you'll have to accept due to your income vs. Hers - your mortgage raising capacity is far higher than hers. 

However any extra equity she gets is either offset against her share of your pension or buys out your spousal maintainance obligation. 

Ultimately it sounds like she's going to argue she needs to stay in the house to meet her and children's housing needs - you need to be evidencing with a fine tooth comb your involvement with the children and provide evidence that there are viable housing options available to the ex.

You also need to be prepared for the ex, with the attitude she's displaying, to weaponise the children. The moment she realises you having the kids 50/50 removes her strongest card when it comes to the financial arrangement, she may well decide to restrict your access - thats where the evidence of the status quo of you *both* being equally involved with the children comes into play - since any child care arrangement will seek to keep the status quo.

The status quo prior to court-arrangements, however, can change. That means her blocking access to ensure she's the main parent could become the new status quo unless immediately legally challenged, but likewise if prior to separation she's the main day to day parent but post separation your now both equally involved, with this being the case for at least a few months... thats the new norm and status quo.

If you both have 2 children, insist as part of the financial settlement that the Child benefit for 1 is switched to you.

The reason i say this is you need to be laying the groundwork to offset any future CSA claim. The default position, if ex puts in a child maintainance claim, CSA take is whoever has child benefit = main resident parent and therefore the other pays child maintainance, even if night AND day care is equally 50/50.

It's then for you to supply evidence that the care is truly 50/50 - a statutory exception then exists and no Child Maintainance is due (hence the part on the calculator saying none is due). Having the child benefit for 1 of the children would form part of this evidence.

Other possible evidence:

- correspondence with Schools and nurseries i.e. varying hours, booking after school club, breakfast clubs etc..
- address of the children with official bodies i.e. council, NHS, Schools etc... Would suggest if the kids are staying 50/50, your address needs to be listed for at least 1 of them! (Don't let ex put hers for everything)
- NHS Correspondence i.e. appointments like dermatology or hearing tests often send letters about how it went and mentions which adult was present (I.e. mum or dad)

Ultimately 50/50 childcare means you genuinely actually *do* 50 / 50 of the childvare - that means School runs, time off work etc... If you are, then absolutely evidence it since without evidence, its entirely possible you could end up paying child maintaince as a result of the ex-wife claiming it and there being insufficient evidence for CSA to apply the exception.

If however its merely 50/50 on where the kids live i.e. nights at yours, but ex is still doing the day to day stuff, then you will owe child maintainance and the childcare isn't actually 50/50.

Edit: one other thing- get your figures on mortgageability firmed up.

I.e. £55,000 income might translate to around £247,500 mortgage borrowing capacity (4.5 times income) - which evidently would be insufficient to both stay on the existing mortgage and then cover your and childrens own housing needs. With a £25,000 or £50,000 deposit it would also mean the house you'd be able to afford would be broadly equal to one the ex could afford with a £150,000 / £175,000 deposit and her own limited mortgage raising capacity (4.5 times income) and/or shared ownership.

That would be the angle I'd combat her with - no emotions, just cold hard maths.

I'd also be sure to highlight the effect of the kids being at nursery/school and your having them 50/50, on your ex's capacity to work full time hours - thereby demonstrating it is a choice rather than a requirement.

Thanks for this response, I appreciate the time you have put into it. Yeah everything will be 50/50, drop offs, swimming etc, I actually do 70% of it now so I will get more time back! My job role is hybrid so I do get flexibility.

She has started to see "someone else" now so I am hoping that he may offer a solution to her housing needs however I think she is going to dig in. To me the best outcome for all both emotionally and financially would be sell the house, pay out equity as per needs of each parent and we should both be able to afford a mortgage on a house close to each other so its minimum disruption for the children. A typical 3 bedroom house in our area is around £180-230k if she gets the majority of the equity then surely this would be a possible solution? I would be free from the mortgage and would be able to buy my own place and have no financial ties.

Pablolufc

RAS said:

With a 2 year old, you will both be required to pay for the childcare needed on the days when you are responsible for the child and do the drop offs and pick ups, plus ensure the 6 year old is dropped off and picked up from school, or arrange and fund after school care.

That works for me, I pay 100% of the childcare now and pick up the 6yr old each night, although will have to help with drop offs as and when

Savvy_Sue

Pablolufc said:

No my step daughter is not adopted. She has both her dad and grandparents just down the road and tends to go from house to house which works well. I would only be looking for a 3 bedroom and I would like to think my wife would do the same.

It's a nice thought, but nothing you've said suggests that she would. She has three children: even if the younger two can reasonably be expected to share at the moment, her eldest won't finish Uni for at least 6 years. By that stage the younger two sharing may not be considered that 'reasonable'. Yes, the eldest has options, but Mum won't want to make her feel 'pushed out' before she's finished education. 

I offer, however, the thought that in six years Mum might reasonably be expected to improve her earning position if she feels she needs a larger house. She may not want to do that, but in divorce, not everyone can have what they want, and you may need to remind her of that. 

ian1246

Pablolufc said:

ian1246 said:

OP, if its 50/50 childcare are you going g to be doing pickups and drop off's at School, doctors appointments etc..?

If so, I'd advise you start right now and document it all.

I'd draw your attention to this on the front page of the calculator:

"You will not have anything to pay through the Child Maintenance Service if you are:

• sharing care equally with the other parent"

So if you are genuinely sharing care 50/50 and are equally involved in the day to day care of your children, you absolutely should not be paying her a single £ in maintainance.

As for equity - you have £202,000. How much is a 3 / 4 bed semi or mid-terrace within reasonable distance of the School? What shared ownership options are nearby?
Get yourself on your local Housing Association sites looking into this.

When the wife said she has no intention of working full time or maximising your earnings - how was this communicated? 
Wife's under an obligation to maximise earnings.

I would suggest your best bet is to argue that the house needs to be sold to release the equity - if your having the children equally (evidence!!!) then your housing needs are as important as ex wives.

£150,000 or £175,000 equity should, in most of the country, be sufficient to cover a shared ownership purchase. With your ex's earnings level, she'd potentially be eligible for universal credit - meaning the rent on any unowned share of the house would be covered by housing allowance element.

That would leave you with £25,000 to £50,000 to purchase a property for yourself. The difference in shares is a reality you'll have to accept due to your income vs. Hers - your mortgage raising capacity is far higher than hers. 

However any extra equity she gets is either offset against her share of your pension or buys out your spousal maintainance obligation. 

Ultimately it sounds like she's going to argue she needs to stay in the house to meet her and children's housing needs - you need to be evidencing with a fine tooth comb your involvement with the children and provide evidence that there are viable housing options available to the ex.

You also need to be prepared for the ex, with the attitude she's displaying, to weaponise the children. The moment she realises you having the kids 50/50 removes her strongest card when it comes to the financial arrangement, she may well decide to restrict your access - thats where the evidence of the status quo of you *both* being equally involved with the children comes into play - since any child care arrangement will seek to keep the status quo.

The status quo prior to court-arrangements, however, can change. That means her blocking access to ensure she's the main parent could become the new status quo unless immediately legally challenged, but likewise if prior to separation she's the main day to day parent but post separation your now both equally involved, with this being the case for at least a few months... thats the new norm and status quo.

If you both have 2 children, insist as part of the financial settlement that the Child benefit for 1 is switched to you.

The reason i say this is you need to be laying the groundwork to offset any future CSA claim. The default position, if ex puts in a child maintainance claim, CSA take is whoever has child benefit = main resident parent and therefore the other pays child maintainance, even if night AND day care is equally 50/50.

It's then for you to supply evidence that the care is truly 50/50 - a statutory exception then exists and no Child Maintainance is due (hence the part on the calculator saying none is due). Having the child benefit for 1 of the children would form part of this evidence.

Other possible evidence:

- correspondence with Schools and nurseries i.e. varying hours, booking after school club, breakfast clubs etc..
- address of the children with official bodies i.e. council, NHS, Schools etc... Would suggest if the kids are staying 50/50, your address needs to be listed for at least 1 of them! (Don't let ex put hers for everything)
- NHS Correspondence i.e. appointments like dermatology or hearing tests often send letters about how it went and mentions which adult was present (I.e. mum or dad)

Ultimately 50/50 childcare means you genuinely actually *do* 50 / 50 of the childvare - that means School runs, time off work etc... If you are, then absolutely evidence it since without evidence, its entirely possible you could end up paying child maintaince as a result of the ex-wife claiming it and there being insufficient evidence for CSA to apply the exception.

If however its merely 50/50 on where the kids live i.e. nights at yours, but ex is still doing the day to day stuff, then you will owe child maintainance and the childcare isn't actually 50/50.

Edit: one other thing- get your figures on mortgageability firmed up.

I.e. £55,000 income might translate to around £247,500 mortgage borrowing capacity (4.5 times income) - which evidently would be insufficient to both stay on the existing mortgage and then cover your and childrens own housing needs. With a £25,000 or £50,000 deposit it would also mean the house you'd be able to afford would be broadly equal to one the ex could afford with a £150,000 / £175,000 deposit and her own limited mortgage raising capacity (4.5 times income) and/or shared ownership.

That would be the angle I'd combat her with - no emotions, just cold hard maths.

I'd also be sure to highlight the effect of the kids being at nursery/school and your having them 50/50, on your ex's capacity to work full time hours - thereby demonstrating it is a choice rather than a requirement.

Thanks for this response, I appreciate the time you have put into it. Yeah everything will be 50/50, drop offs, swimming etc, I actually do 70% of it now so I will get more time back! My job role is hybrid so I do get flexibility.

She has started to see "someone else" now so I am hoping that he may offer a solution to her housing needs however I think she is going to dig in. To me the best outcome for all both emotionally and financially would be sell the house, pay out equity as per needs of each parent and we should both be able to afford a mortgage on a house close to each other so its minimum disruption for the children. A typical 3 bedroom house in our area is around £180-230k if she gets the majority of the equity then surely this would be a possible solution? I would be free from the mortgage and would be able to buy my own place and have no financial ties.

That sounds eminently sensible - remember to offset any extra equity she gets against her entitlement to your share of the pension, or given the income disparity, potentially against a Spousal-Maintenance requirement.

Glad to hear your so hands on when it comes to the kids - I'm a 60/40 Dad (my son spends 60% of the time with me) and I do find it often quite depressing when I speak to colleagues or other men who have essentially allowed their ex-wife to push them either out or minimise their involvement with the children - and I have absolutely no patience for the "bare minimum" Dad's - we live in the modern age and happily there is a growing % of children to separated parents who get to spend a far more equal portion of time with both parents - allowing the opportunity to develop better relationships.

Your ex sounds like she needs to get with the 21st century - the days of men being tied to marital homes paying for the house for the next 15 years whilst ex lives in it, consigning the father to a bed-sit and no where for their children, are happily becoming increasingly rare.

Who is your current mortgage with? If you go on their website, odds are they will have a mortgage calculator which will calculate how much can be borrowed. Play the role of your ex - in as realistic manner as you can with income and outgoings - and that should give you a pretty good idea of her mortgage raising capacity. If you contrast that to the average reasonable family-home (suitable to meet her needs) in proximity to the kids schools / where the marital home's currently located, that should give you a decent idea on the sort of equity she'll need to meet her housing needs. Evidence that for the mediation and/or court.

Ultimately - the aim for you is to be as reasonable and fair as you can be, whilst also ensuring that your interests are looked after. The court will move away from a 50/50 settlement - but only so far as is *necessary* to meet both parent's needs. If she's demanding that you remain tied to her for the next decade or 2, its on her to demonstrate why that is necessary - and its for you to prove that's an excessive demand.

Another thing in your shoes which I'd be doing is starting to catalogue reasonable houses in the area as they appear on Zoopla, Rightmove, onthemarket etc.... - screenshot the advertisement showing the price and location and perhaps the floorplan of the house and stick it onto a word document - including the date it first appears on the market and a link to the advertisement.

That way you start to build evidence to support your position that what the ex is demanding is excessive and unreasonable, by demonstrating what else is actually out there and has been available through the period of separation / dispute. This would hopefully also help demonstrate how unreasonable your ex is being with her demands.

If you are genuinely having the kids 70%, evidence it and speak to a solicitor ASAP - if that is the status quo and you and the kids are happy with it, in your shoes I'd potentially be seeking to keep that and moving forward as the main residential parent whilst ex becomes the non-resident parent - that means provided you have solid evidence, potentially appealing to HMRC to have the child benefit switched to yourself and Child-Maintenance payments made by Ex to yourself. It would also absolutely have a baring on the financial settlement if she's staying in the marital home with the kids there only 30% of the time, whilst for the other 70% they are with you elsewhere (In appropriate accommodation? Or is a bit of a squeeze?).

This approach would absolutely be inflammatory mind and could further strain relations, but ultimately if she's not the main parent - why should she be receiving the Child Benefit and Universal Credit Support (Its actually benefit fraud if she is!) AND demanding you pay for her housing needs for the next 16 years, whilst the kids live predominantly with you!!! Only you can make the call on whether it would be worth it.

The Ex absolutely needs tuning in (by an appropriate professional) - you paying 100% of the childcare, are you paying 100% of the mortgage costs for the marital home she lives in?.... whilst the kids stay 70% of the time with you? Speak to a solicitor ASAP on how best to start building your case with solid evidence.

Savvy_Sue

Agree with the above, and there could be an argument that you stay in the marital home (paying the mortgage of course) while she moves elsewhere, to minimise disruption to the children. Except, of course, you don't need a 4 bed house if your stepdaughter is adequately housed elsewhere. 

mind you, I do feel a bit sorry for your stepdaughter, who may feel she's being 'pushed out' if there isn't a room for her with her younger siblings.