Unusual Probate Scenario & Estate Advice

silvercar

It could be that a third party knew your father was in care and took over the flat, then rented it to the current occupiers. They may not know that the person they pay rent to isn’t in fact the owner. As for neighbours seeing people driving away, they may not be the most reliable in identifying people while opening out of their net curtains!

rjsdavis

Flugelhorn said:

Goodness me that is quite a development - someone at the flat must know what has happened to your father, I hope the police act quickly before all these people disappear

They don't. He was last seen at the flats sometime last year by the Leader of the Residents Association - approx. 12-18 months ago. 

That's his last known sighting. No-one that I've spoken to knows what happened to him after that. His flat remains owned by him. That's all I've got at the present time, other than being aware that 'three men' are presently living in his flat and that they emptied out all of his possessions last year. 

It's over to the Police now, and we can only hope that they take this seriously and do what needs to be done to get to the bottom of what's happened to my father. 

rjsdavis

rjsdavis said:

Savvy_Sue said:

There's also a charity called Missing People, it's possibly worth contacting them. I know they're usually looking for those whose friends and family want to find out what happened to them, and yours is not a typical situation, but I'd hope you'd get some help.

Thank you for the suggestion. 

I've already been in contact with the 'Finders International" website, and have received a reply, and one of their researchers was now looking into whether this was an enquiry that they could potentially look into. This was a few weeks ago, but they did at least reply. I will also try the Missing People website as well - thanks. 

No joy with Missing People. Have just come off with them, and all they could offer me was 'emotional support' and advised me to report it to the Police. I know that the emotional support will be very helpful indeed for some people that need it, but it's not what I need right now to track down my father's whereabouts. 

rjsdavis

silvercar said:

It could be that a third party knew your father was in care and took over the flat, then rented it to the current occupiers. They may not know that the person they pay rent to isn’t in fact the owner. As for neighbours seeing people driving away, they may not be the most reliable in identifying people while opening out of their net curtains!

Thank you for the reply - but I think not. 

The last person that we spoke was *exceptionally* aggressive and deeply unpleasant. He directly claimed, a number of times, that he owned the flat and was the landlord. He is not the owner. We know as fact from the Land Registry who the property owner is. 

If you had had the four-hour conversation with the neighbour that I have done, with the exceptional level of detail that he has been able to provide about recent events and more historic events, you'd have more confidence in what has been shared with us. He's already, clearly, going to be a crucial witness for the Police, but thank you anyway. 

Catonthemoon

Wow, well that was a turn up for the books!  I don’t believe this will be a quick & easy fix. Unless the current occupants are willing to vacate once the facts are explained to them, then you’re almost certainly facing court action. If they’re the nasty & aggressive sort, which it sounds like they are, they are most likely to dig their heels in and stay put as long as possible until they’re removed by bailiffs.

You may (or may not) be aware of a TV programme called ‘Nightmare Tenants, Rogue Landlords’. These programmes feature cases involving scams of various sorts & other complex situations (fraud, sub-letting, squatters etc). The property owners ask for assistance from either ‘Landlord Action’ or ‘The Landlord Group’ in order to get their properties back. Both of these guys are very experienced in dealing with ‘problematic cases’, and… they nearly always get results!

Good luck with it all.

Savvy_Sue

rjsdavis said:

The Police have told us, unofficially, there is a growing and very real problem of foreign nationals targeting elderly and vulnerable people, taking control of them and their lives to take over what they have. At the moment, we can only hope that he is tucked away somewhere in a care home, but either way, they have still taken control of his flat and are living in it and profiteering from it at the moment. The status of ownership was checked by an estate agent friend of ours just yesterday to re-confirm that my father remains the owner the property and that there are no 'formally registered' tenancy agreements and/or deposit arrangements linked to the property. There are none. 

Indeed there is: Radio 4 recently did a series on the problem.

silvercar

rjsdavis said:

silvercar said:

It could be that a third party knew your father was in care and took over the flat, then rented it to the current occupiers. They may not know that the person they pay rent to isn’t in fact the owner. As for neighbours seeing people driving away, they may not be the most reliable in identifying people while opening out of their net curtains!

Thank you for the reply - but I think not. 

The last person that we spoke was *exceptionally* aggressive and deeply unpleasant. He directly claimed, a number of times, that he owned the flat and was the landlord. He is not the owner. We know as fact from the Land Registry who the property owner is. 

If you had had the four-hour conversation with the neighbour that I have done, with the exceptional level of detail that he has been able to provide about recent events and more historic events, you'd have more confidence in what has been shared with us. He's already, clearly, going to be a crucial witness for the Police, but thank you anyway. 

Fair enough. Two points.

1. have you checked with Land Registry that there hasn’t been a sale in the interim? Delays in updating title deeds are taking many months, it could be that your father sold the property but the deeds haven’t been updated. 

2. What did the aggressive self proclaimed owner say when you told him the deeds were in the name of your father?

Any input you can make @Land_Registry ? 

Land_Registry

silvercar said:

Fair enough. Two points.

1. have you checked with Land Registry that there hasn’t been a sale in the interim? Delays in updating title deeds are taking many months, it could be that your father sold the property but the deeds haven’t been updated. 

2. What did the aggressive self proclaimed owner say when you told him the deeds were in the name of your father?

Any input you can make @Land_Registry ? 

Not really as suspect advice already given to check with Council re council tax and/or with us to see if there is a pending application to update the register (form OS3 - £11) for example
If the flats been let on a short-term lease/tenancy agreement then that wouldn't be registered with us