Unusual Probate Scenario & Estate Advice

rjsdavis

I write with the hope that someone out there might be able to help nudging me in the right direction. 

A few weeks ago, I had a Policeman knock on the door to notify me that my Uncle had been found dead in a hotel in France. I was very surprised as it was completely unexpected. I was more surprised as both my father and his late brother are completely estranged from the core of the family. The Policeman informed me that they had attempted to find and locate my father, but had been unsuccessful and given up hence coming to me as the direct next of kin. 

My late Uncle had always been, to the best of my knowledge, a chartered accountant who had lived his entire life in a flat in West London. However, it is reported to me that he was found ‘living’ in this hotel in France (although apparently the Gendarme’s reported that they believed him to be ‘homeless’), and further information from both the British Consulate in Paris as well as some help from the local Police appears to reveal that he had been ‘living’ in a budget hotel in Folkestone to where his NHS prescriptions and even his car had apparently been registered! I do not understand this at all, as even the concept of ‘living’ in a hotel is entirely alien to me. A brief scan of Zoopla seems to show that he had sold his flat in London some 10 years ago or so. 

My questions revolve around what to do next. 

Even the Police are unable to uncover much about his life and what he appears to have been upto in the years leading upto his death. Therefore, it appears to fall to me, to deal with his affairs and start to make sense of it all. I am the co-administrator of the Estate of our late mother (with my sister), so have been through the process of obtaining the Letters of Representation for our late mother’s estate previously, but my first question is; Am I entitled to make the same application on behalf of my late Uncle’s estate? 

I ask this in the context of my father being the natural, direct, next of kin, but no-one seems to know where he is – including the Police. If they can’t find him and/or make contact with him, what chance do I have? The Police have refused, on GDPR grounds, to advise me what addresses they have tried to track my father down at. Being completely frank, I don’t even know if he’s still alive. 

My other primary question is; I need to go over to France to collect my late Uncle’s belongings and such, but how do I begin to track down my late Uncle’s assets so that I can complete and file the HMRC probate accounts which is a necessary step to complete and have been accepted by HMRC before the Letters of Representation can be applied for in the Probate Court? He appears to be living a strange, quasi-transient lifestyle, and I’m sure, when I am given them, that both his laptop and mobile phone will be secured and inaccessible to me. How do I uncover the assets of a person leading such a transient, strange lifestyle to report matters as accurately as possible to HMRC and the Court? 

Finally, the local Town Hall in France have started to ask me about covering their expenses in dealing with his post mortem arrangements (which include a temporary funeral), which I cannot possibly afford. Is there a way where I can uncover whether my late Uncle had travel insurance, which I would think would have covered expenses in the event of his death whilst travelling? As far as I can tell, he was still mostly ‘living’ in Great Britain in normalish, everyday circumstances, albeit in a budget hotel in Folkestone, but I don’t actually know that and can't even ascertain whether he was essentially a tourist in France when he died and thus am unsure where to even start - for example, both the Kent Police and British Consulate have been unable to tell me when he entered France prior to his death. According to the British Consulate and the local administrators in the Town Hall, there’s nothing to give away that he was insured under a travel insurance policy from what they’ve been able to uncover from his personal possessions when he was found. 

Any help or guidance on ways to uncover information to begin to deal with this mess, would be enormously appreciated.

Many thanks in advance for any replies. 

DE_612183

There is the Tell Us Once government service which will sort out a few things - also I think you can apply to put a "advert" in a gazette which most financial companies can use to contact you about his affairs.

But I guess the first thing is to try and sort out post and bank accounts to see what  money ( if any ) there is.

p00hsticks

My strong advice would be to simply step away from it. 

You are under no legal obligation to deal with anything, it sounds as if there is a good chance that the estate will be insolvent and even if it were not if your father is still alive he rather than you would be the beneficiary unless a will could be located that says otherwise. 

you have nothing to gain and a lot of hair ot lose if you undertake this. 

The authorities, hotel etc understandably will be looking for someone to accept authority, pay bills etc but there is nothing to say you have to and make it clear to all who ask that you want nothing to do with it. 

flaneurs_lobster

I'm surprised that anyone can be imposed upon to assume the responsibilities that you have taken on, even for a close and loved relation let alone one from whom you are estranged. Does being (found) next of kin impose responsibilities on an individual in the event of death?

Are you not able to simply decline to have anything to do with the matter?

MayDogsandCoffee

I would be strongly tempted to step away.  He may have listed you as next of kin but that does not mean that you have to be the one to sort his affairs.

Keep_pedalling

Not as common as it once was but people do live permanently in hotels (like the major in Faulty Towers). Personally I would not walk away at this stage I would really want to know if his estate was insolvent or if he had six figures sitting in savings or a private pension. I doubt whether he was insolvent if he planned carrying on living at this hotel but died unexpectedly. 

Flugelhorn

this does read as though he was living on a shoestring (though may have had ££££ stashed away). Is his room in Folkestone still being paid for? or had he left there? I would have thought any post that he had may have gone there and may be a place to start.
don't get too involved as you may need to step away - re the French authorities - just say that as far as you are concerned there is no money in the estate 

rjsdavis

p00hsticks said:

My strong advice would be to simply step away from it. 

You are under no legal obligation to deal with anything, it sounds as if there is a good chance that the estate will be insolvent and even if it were not if your father is still alive he rather than you would be the beneficiary unless a will could be located that says otherwise. 

you have nothing to gain and a lot of hair ot lose if you undertake this. 

The authorities, hotel etc understandably will be looking for someone to accept authority, pay bills etc but there is nothing to say you have to and make it clear to all who ask that you want nothing to do with it. 

Thank you for the numerous replies that have been posted already. 

To answer some of the questions/queries raised: 

1: If I believed for a moment that my late uncle was insolvent I wouldn't be going anywhere near this. He was a notoriously mean and tight individual, led largely by his post-war upbringing and to 'save for a rainy day'. 

2: The Police have come to me to notify me of the death as they were completely unable to track down and/or find my father. In reality, I have no idea how hard they tried to find my father. 

As an aside, within just a few days of becoming aware of my late Uncle's passing, I received a letter from my late uncle's solicitors who have been administering the estate of my late grandmother (my father and his brother's mother), asking me if I was aware of the whereabouts of my father. 

Therefore, there is the estate of both my late uncle, and a further estate of my late grandmother, of which my late uncle would have been entitled to half along with his brother. Therefore, I'd have confidence that he was far from insolvent. Deeply psychologically disturbed - probably, but certainly not insolvent. 

3: Thank you DE for the suggestion of the "Tell Us Once" service - was not aware of that. Will look into it. 

4: I will be visiting the hotel in Folkestone shortly to try to uncover further information and at least stop the accumulation of further bills for any 'residency' - can well remember the Major in Fawlty Towers, but really didn't think people were doing this these days! It's so strange.. 

5: His former flat was in Chelsea. He would have sold it for a considerable sum. Again, it's unlikely that he was insolvent. I would imagine and wouldn't be surprised that the two estate's combined do amount to six figures, or more, particularly if there is still a firm of solicitors acting on behalf of the estate of my late grandmother to this day. 

6: No-one is trying to impose this on me per se. The Police came and simply notified me of the event, and I've really got two choices: 

* Do nothing at all and simply walk away from it and pretend that it never happened. 
* Start to take on his affairs and apply for Letters of Representation as a family member in the direct line of succession and become the Executor of his estate. (I really can't think of any third or fourth options, which is why I'm here in part). 

I wasn't listed as the next of kin of my uncle, it was the request of the British Consulate in Paris, that brought the Police to my door. 

7: The French authorities have now confirmed that they are indeed happy to deal with me and pass me his personal effects. This will include a small car, laptop, phone and whatever other personals he had in his possession at the time. I had to get government docs together to prove, to their satisfaction, that I am indeed the nephew of the deceased, and they have now formally accepted this. I wasn't travelling to France without the authorities formally confirming that everything was in order from their perspective! 

My primary difficulty is in actually dealing with my late Uncle's estate. I am loathed to engage a solicitor as I don't want to burn through my personal funds only to find it was all a waste of time. I understand that my father is the correct and first next of kin for his brother, but where he cannot be located and/or traced and/or contacted by either the Police or a firm of solicitors, and where the Police have refused to provide me with any direct address details for my father - I just can't see what I can do?!

I am trying, quite hard, to do the right thing here, but it's a real pain in the backside... 

Thanks once again for all of the replies. 

DE_612183

question - how old is your Father?

how distinctive is his name?

you could try 192.com

also if you know a previous place of work that might lead you to a pension provider etc.

would you have somewhere his NI number?

There are Relative Finders who change about £500 - not sure if that constitutes burning through cash, as I appreciate your circumstances have to be taken into account as well.....

poppystar

Tbh I’d want to be sure this was the correct person and not someone who had simply taken uncle’s ID, his money and set up a new life as him. I assume it’s too late for a DNA test to confirm this? Or was it part of the French authorities post death protocol to take a sample? But maybe that is my naturally suspicious mind! 

I think it’s as important to find your father as to deal with your uncle’s estate, especially since father would be the prime beneficiary assuming uncle didn’t have children or a long separated wife. Presumably the solicitors for your grandmother’s estate did know he was in France and hence followed the same trail to you? If you are happy for costs to come out of your grandmother’s estate could you not ask the solicitors  to employ an heir hunter as part of their work? They will have better contacts than the average person. Or maybe that is exactly why they found you.

rjsdavis

poppystar said:

Tbh I’d want to be sure this was the correct person and not someone who had simply taken uncle’s ID, his money and set up a new life as him. I assume it’s too late for a DNA test to confirm this? Or was it part of the French authorities post death protocol to take a sample? But maybe that is my naturally suspicious mind! 

I think it’s as important to find your father as to deal with your uncle’s estate, especially since father would be the prime beneficiary assuming uncle didn’t have children or a long separated wife. Presumably the solicitors for your grandmother’s estate did know he was in France and hence followed the same trail to you? If you are happy for costs to come out of your grandmother’s estate could you not ask the solicitors  to employ an heir hunter as part of their work? They will have better contacts than the average person. Or maybe that is exactly why they found you.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

I don't think there's any danger at all of this not being my uncle - he had his passport with him when he died, which I'm sure they will have checked with the BC to make sure all is present and correct. I certainly wouldn't be pursuing DNA testing, and as the French authorities are already raising the prospect of their costs, to date, being covered by me as it is - I'm not getting into that any further than absolutely necessary!  

Apparently, he was a 'regular' at this particular hotel in France and known well to them. In addition to essentially living in a hotel in Folkestone, it seems to me that he had largely cashed in his capital assets, and was essentially burning through what cash he had through the later years in his life, so that he left nothing, or little behind. That's the sort of impression I draw anyway - I don't know how successful he had been with that though. 

My uncle had been divorced for some 30-35 years and remained single for the rest of his life. No children. 

I don't know what the solicitors for my grandmother's estate know about his personal affairs, or his movements. I do know that everytime you write to one, that's hundreds of pounds in fees deducted from the account, just to reply. If you actually ask them to do some work, watch that transform into thousands of pounds. That might be small-fry to some, but it isn't to me. Or my sister. I would only ever ask a solicitor to do something for me, that was absolutely essential and something that I couldn't do for myself. 

The solicitors didn't find me as such, they've known me for about 20 years - but I wouldn't exactly say that I was tricky to find either. It was the Police, operating on behalf of the British Consulate, that tracked me down and plonked all of this into my lap.