Unusual Probate Scenario & Estate Advice

rjsdavis

Section62 said:

rjsdavis said:

8: Indeed, something that I've raised with the French authorities, as when I was first informed of what had happened, one of my earliest thoughts I assumed that he still lived in a UK property somewhere (I really figured that he would never have sold his beloved flat in London for anything), so that if there were a will, it would likely have had a copy there. Since he appears to have lived nowhere permanent, unless a copy is knocking about in the Folkestone hotel room, I can't even imagine where or how you'd track something like that down. If it's with a firm of solicitors somewhere, that could be any firm, anywhere. 

Just checking - did you ask the solicitors administering the estate of your late grandmother if your uncle had his own will with them?

Also, were they the same solicitors who dealt with the sale of his London flat?  If not, it might be worth tracking down whichever solicitors did that, as it may be he made a new or updated will at the same time.  In the old paper-based system the deeds would probably include documents drafted by that solicitor, but I don't know whether the Land Registry would retain that information in the new systems, or if they have any record of their own of which solicitor was involved in a given transaction.  Maybe ask Land Registry for advice on identifying the solicitor who dealt with the sale?

I haven't been back to them yet. 

I'm dealing with some magic circle solicitors at the moment to do with a class action against a couple of high street banks. I'm acutely aware that the simplest contact or enquiry generates large fee income, which they would no doubt charge to the estate, so my natural inclination is to do nothing that costs legal fees until it's strictly necessary. 

In terms of Land Registry, I will try, but I doubt that they will actually provide me with any information - I expect that they will hide between GDPR (even though he's died), as I doubt that I would be regarded as an 'authorised' person to provide such information to. 

I remain in the position that this is probably putting the horse before the cart a little, as if the Court/HMRC would refuse to grant LoR to myself/sister as the only traceable direct family (which I still haven't established yet), then I'll never be able to uncover such information. Clearly, the paradox is, that I would need to uncover this sort of information to complete the first step of reporting accounts to HMRC, prior to requesting anything of the Probate Court in any event! 

I appear to be at a bit of an impasse just at the moment... 

rjsdavis

WYSPECIAL said:

rjsdavis said:

DE_612183 said:

question - how old is your Father?

how distinctive is his name?

you could try 192.com

also if you know a previous place of work that might lead you to a pension provider etc.

would you have somewhere his NI number?

There are Relative Finders who change about £500 - not sure if that constitutes burning through cash, as I appreciate your circumstances have to be taken into account as well.....

Thank you for your further reply. 

Father is now 81 (b. 1944)
Not particularly distinctive name, and I have tried 192.com on a number of occasions. No results. 

I used to have a reasonable idea of where he lived, as for a little while he lived in his mother's old house before it was sold, and then remained in the same area. I've seen him in the city several times over the years, and the last time I saw him was pre-Covid in the city centre. He had been shopping in a supermarket and was walking (presumably home) carrying his shopping. Therefore, I assumed that he was within walking distance of the supermarket - not terribly far away from where I actually live, or where his mother used to live.

I've tried scanning through the primary Council Tax list at the local Council offices, but couldn't see him, but I don't actually know what road he lives on, or at least lives on at the time. The Police do seem to know this, but even they weren't able to make contact with him. 

My father hadn't worked in decades - even though he was also a chartered accountant. He wasn't a popular chap in the places that he had worked earlier in his career, and found it difficult to hold down work due to his exceptionally arrogant and ultra aggressive personality (my uncle was the same - they were two peas in a rotten pod).

I'm not sure that I do have my father's NI number. I'm pretty sure that I do have my uncle's.  

If you know where he lasted lived try ringing the local council to see if Court of Protection or social workers are involved. His affairs may be being looked after if he no longer has capacity. 

Thank you for the suggestion. 

I don't know where he lives, or last lived. I suspect he may have lived in Canterbury from a sighting, but this is just a best guess and this was sometime pre-Covid. I've asked the Police, but they've stopped providing me information now and basically told me to !!!!!! off and work it all out for myself. It appears to be a mixture of them hiding behind GDPR, as well as them basically not being sucked into, essentially, social work. 

I can understand their position (It was the local Commander/Chief Inspector that I had been dealing with), but it remains a real block to making actual progress. 

rjsdavis

RAS said:

It might be worth asking the solicitors if they've already use the Salvation Army tracing service?

I probably will have to end up asking them things like this. I remain loathed to incur legal fees (from the estate) unless absolutely needed. 

I tried to make contact with this service: 

https://www.findersinternational.com/contact/

but never received a response. I will see if I can track down the Salvation Army service that you refer to myself. Thanks for the suggestion. 

Savvy_Sue

There's also a charity called Missing People, it's possibly worth contacting them. I know they're usually looking for those whose friends and family want to find out what happened to them, and yours is not a typical situation, but I'd hope you'd get some help.

WYSPECIAL

 It appears to be a mixture of them hiding behind GDPR, as well as them basically not being sucked into, essentially, social work. 

.

If the Police are concerned about breaching GDPR it suggests they know he is still alive.

Usually though they will tell you that someone is alive and well but doesn't want any contact

Lagrange

You mentioned that both your father and brother were chartered accountants. Have you tried contacting ICAEW (Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales) and CABA (Chartered Accountants' Benevolent Association) for information about them?  CABA says it provides lifelong support to past and present ICAEW members and their families so may have dealt with similar situations. 

rjsdavis

Savvy_Sue said:

There's also a charity called Missing People, it's possibly worth contacting them. I know they're usually looking for those whose friends and family want to find out what happened to them, and yours is not a typical situation, but I'd hope you'd get some help.

Thank you for the suggestion. 

I've already been in contact with the 'Finders International" website, and have received a reply, and one of their researchers was now looking into whether this was an enquiry that they could potentially look into. This was a few weeks ago, but they did at least reply. I will also try the Missing People website as well - thanks. 

rjsdavis

Lagrange said:

You mentioned that both your father and brother were chartered accountants. Have you tried contacting ICAEW (Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales) and CABA (Chartered Accountants' Benevolent Association) for information about them?  CABA says it provides lifelong support to past and present ICAEW members and their families so may have dealt with similar situations. 

Thank you - I didn't know this. I will try them as well. 

Thanks for the suggestion. 

rjsdavis

Apologies for the delay in replying. There have been some extremely concerning developments. 

The solicitor that controls the Estate of my late grandmother, my father and his brother's mother, has been in touch with me asking if I knew of his whereabouts. Subsequently, these same solicitors have now also instructed a PI with whom myself, my sister and a probate solicitor that is a close friend of my sister's are all looking at what has happened to my father and where he is. 

I have tracked down my father to a flat in Wembley. Last week, I visited the flat, expecting to get no response as I had assumed that my father would not answer the door, but try to quietly see who had come knocking. However, after a few minutes a foreign man started to speak to me from the balcony of the flat, claiming that he was living there and paying rent to another person that he lived with - a chap that he named as 'Mohammed'. He gave me the mobile number of that person. I'd already checked and purchased a copy of the Title Deed register from the Land Registry confirming that my father is registered Leaseholder of the flat. 

Our friend, the solicitor, called Mohammed. He denied having anything to do with the flat and claimed that he was 'just a builder' that had done some work there (admitting a connection to the flat of sorts), and ended up providing the details of a woman that he claimed was living there. This woman was much more aggressive and informed us that she was living there (even though a neighbour has confirmed that she isn't, but had done some time ago), and was paying rent to yet another man (Ali) and provided us with his number. 

The solicitor spoke to Ali. He was exceptionally aggressive and informed our solicitor that 'he owned the flat' and that he had known my father, but that my father had 'gone to Scottish 3.5 years ago'. Neighbours have now separately confirmed that my father had been seen at the flats much, much more recently than that - circa 12 months ago. 

We've recorded all of these conversations for evidence. 

It has become increasingly clear that my father is genuinely missing and is not living in his own home. At the moment, our only real theses are that he's either ended up in a care home somewhere and that this miscreants have become aware that there is an empty property and taken control of it, or that my father has been done in with the same net outcome with these people that presently control his flat. As you'd expect, we've now taken this to the Police.   

It seems to be very clear that these people in my father's flat are there illegally. It seems to be likely that they have taken advantage an extremely (and obviously so) frail and elderly man. A neighbour that knew him well until he disappeared from the estate where he was living has described him as being 'hunched over, almost bent double and shuffling along as he walked' such had been the deterioration of his physical health. It would have been obvious to anyone that he was completely powerless and defenceless to anyone that would wish to overpower him. 

I've become aware that shortly after my father was last seen alive, these people that took control of his flat and moved in, and shortly thereafter after removed all of my father's possessions and furniture into a large van and took it all away - this was all witnessed by a neighbour. 

The Police have told us, unofficially, there is a growing and very real problem of foreign nationals targeting elderly and vulnerable people, taking control of them and their lives to take over what they have. At the moment, we can only hope that he is tucked away somewhere in a care home, but either way, they have still taken control of his flat and are living in it and profiteering from it at the moment. The status of ownership was checked by an estate agent friend of ours just yesterday to re-confirm that my father remains the owner the property and that there are no 'formally registered' tenancy agreements and/or deposit arrangements linked to the property. There are none. 

In the background, the affairs of my Uncle have rather had to take a back-seat for the time being, whilst we try and work out what's actually happened to my father. 

Flugelhorn

Goodness me that is quite a development - someone at the flat must know what has happened to your father, I hope the police act quickly before all these people disappear