Should I pay for plumber who didn’t fix problem?

kimwp

It's just a risk that comes with employing workpeople when you don't know how to do the job yourself. At least you (and I!) know now that checkatrade has that refund option and you can get chatting to people to get the numbers of a reliable plumber, electrician etc. (make sure you ask them about the quality of the work, the price they charge, whether they are on time or not, people tend to recommend workpeople because they want to be helpful, so bizarrely they may recommend people that aren't that great until you ask them about their experience with them)

In terms of the remaining leak- it's definitely from a part that he has fitted, so he needs to sort it and if he can't (and I'd be looking for some guarantee of the leak not retirning), he needs to refund you almost everything you've paid him because he's tried to fix a leak and left you with a leak.

WIAWSNB

Darkangel said:

This is the initial invoice. I’ve blanked out my address and their company details until it is resolved. 

The second invoice/receipt for the flexi pipe is a hard copy, fixed price for the replacement/installation. It’s has their company name, VAT and registration numbers on and my signature so don’t want to share that 

Yes, best to leave their details off until resolved.

£350 for effectively replacing a cistern inlet valet is very expensive indeed. The actual valve would appear to be this part:

And it would appear to me that any labour cost which attempts to justify the remaining ~£340 for that invoice, would largely have been gardened due to their mechanical incompetence. 

How long was the first incompetent there for?

Did you have any prior idea of what their labour charge could be?

How much is the second bill for, and what - exactly - does it say?

Oh, and do you have Legal Protection included in your flat's contents policy. 

Darkangel

WIAWSNB said:

Darkangel said:

This is the initial invoice. I’ve blanked out my address and their company details until it is resolved. 

The second invoice/receipt for the flexi pipe is a hard copy, fixed price for the replacement/installation. It’s has their company name, VAT and registration numbers on and my signature so don’t want to share that 

Yes, best to leave their details off until resolved.

£350 for effectively replacing a cistern inlet valet is very expensive indeed. The actual valve would appear to be this part:

And it would appear to me that any labour cost which attempts to justify the remaining ~£340 for that invoice, would largely have been gardened due to their mechanical incompetence. 

How long was the first incompetent there for?

Did you have any prior idea of what their labour charge could be?

How much is the second bill for, and what - exactly - does it say?

Oh, and do you have Legal Protection included in your flat's contents policy. 

He was here for around 2 hours including the time he went to get the part. The same person came out the second time with another man, assuming an apprentice, but either way, 2 strange men in my flat. 

Worth noting I live in London so everything is more expensive here. I had a locksmith out about a year ago and their hourly charge was similar. 

I have home emergency extra cover but not legal protection cover. 

bjorn_toby_wilde

You can and should ask them to return and fix the leak that they left free of charge. If they refuse or ask you for more money you have the right to have another tradesman put it right and deduct the money for this remedy from their bill.

If you paid by credit card that makes things much easier.

Follow this link and you’ll find advice and template letters which you can send to them by email. Time to get formal and document everything.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/getting-home-improvements-done/problem-with-home-improvements/

It worked for me in my parents’ case with Rightio plumbers. A pain I know, but the only way to get it fixed without spending more money if you can’t do it yourself.

WIAWSNB

Darkangel said:

WIAWSNB said:

Darkangel said:

This is the initial invoice. I’ve blanked out my address and their company details until it is resolved. 

The second invoice/receipt for the flexi pipe is a hard copy, fixed price for the replacement/installation. It’s has their company name, VAT and registration numbers on and my signature so don’t want to share that 

Yes, best to leave their details off until resolved.

£350 for effectively replacing a cistern inlet valet is very expensive indeed. The actual valve would appear to be this part:

And it would appear to me that any labour cost which attempts to justify the remaining ~£340 for that invoice, would largely have been gardened due to their mechanical incompetence. 

How long was the first incompetent there for?

Did you have any prior idea of what their labour charge could be?

How much is the second bill for, and what - exactly - does it say?

Oh, and do you have Legal Protection included in your flat's contents policy. 

He was here for around 2 hours including the time he went to get the part. The same person came out the second time with another man, assuming an apprentice, but either way, 2 strange men in my flat. 

Worth noting I live in London so everything is more expensive here. I had a locksmith out about a year ago and their hourly charge was similar. 

I have home emergency extra cover but not legal protection cover. 

And what, exactly did the second invoice say?
Yes, London can be costly - Pimlico Plumbers' typically took home a sizeable 6-figure salary, and many were of the same calibre as your fellow.
Do they state an hourly charge on their site?
There are good, decent plumbers in London, and you need to find yourself one going forwards.
Meanwhile, in any comms, leave out any emotive terms like 'strangers', 'defeated', and 'sh***y' :-) Stick to impartial facts.
As I pointed out before, unless their hourly charge is £170ph, and it astonishingly could be, then you have a case.
How good will also come down to what the second invoice says.
But, yes, the first step is to get them back, and not pay one penny extra.
And, for pity's sakes, record this visit.

MysteryMe

How did you pay?

kimwp

WIAWSNB said:

Darkangel said:

WIAWSNB said:

Darkangel said:

This is the initial invoice. I’ve blanked out my address and their company details until it is resolved. 

The second invoice/receipt for the flexi pipe is a hard copy, fixed price for the replacement/installation. It’s has their company name, VAT and registration numbers on and my signature so don’t want to share that 

Yes, best to leave their details off until resolved.

£350 for effectively replacing a cistern inlet valet is very expensive indeed. The actual valve would appear to be this part:

And it would appear to me that any labour cost which attempts to justify the remaining ~£340 for that invoice, would largely have been gardened due to their mechanical incompetence. 

How long was the first incompetent there for?

Did you have any prior idea of what their labour charge could be?

How much is the second bill for, and what - exactly - does it say?

Oh, and do you have Legal Protection included in your flat's contents policy. 

He was here for around 2 hours including the time he went to get the part. The same person came out the second time with another man, assuming an apprentice, but either way, 2 strange men in my flat. 

Worth noting I live in London so everything is more expensive here. I had a locksmith out about a year ago and their hourly charge was similar. 

I have home emergency extra cover but not legal protection cover. 

And what, exactly did the second invoice say?
Yes, London can be costly - Pimlico Plumbers' typically took home a sizeable 6-figure salary, and many were of the same calibre as your fellow.
Do they state an hourly charge on their site?
There are good, decent plumbers in London, and you need to find yourself one going forwards.
Meanwhile, in any comms, leave out any emotive terms like 'strangers', 'defeated', and 'sh***y' :-) Stick to impartial facts.
As I pointed out before, unless their hourly charge is £170ph, and it astonishingly could be, then you have a case.
How good will also come down to what the second invoice says.
But, yes, the first step is to get them back, and not pay one penny extra.
And, for pity's sakes, record this visit.

 @WIAWSNB it's quite difficult to tell in your posts whether you are talking to the OP or advising her on what to say to the plumber.
(I'm pretty sure this post is meaning to advise her not to say "defeated" etc to the plumbers, but it reads as though you are telling her not to say that anywhere, including here.)

WIAWSNB

kimwp said:

 @WIAWSNB it's quite difficult to tell in your posts whether you are talking to the OP or advising her on what to say to the plumber.
(I'm pretty sure this post is meaning to advise her not to say "defeated" etc to the plumbers, but it reads as though you are telling her not to say that anywhere, including here.)

Oops, sorry, yes I can see that.
If folk want to 'emote' on here, that's their right.
So, yes, I meant in any comms with the company, or say a LegProt group - these points are immaterial, and will often serve the opposite purpose to that presumably intended or hoped for. 
Even on here, if the emotes are seen as unreasonable, they can often serve the opposite intention too.
This is a situation about a seemingly incompetent plumber, who is going to take at least three visits to solve a simple leak, uses DIY-level methods to do so, and is charging an extortionate price for the privilege.
But to have a plumber in your house usually does mean it'll be a 'stranger'. And the OP hasn't actually challenged the company on their incompetence and costing yet, so is hopefully not 'defeated'. 
The other term is ok, tho', provided it's aimed at the plumber :-)

jcb208

Total rip off that is 1hours Labour and a £20 part so should be around the £100 mark,I honestly don't know how these crooks can keep a straight face  when invoicing these ludicrous amounts

Section62

jcb208 said:

Total rip off that is 1hours Labour and a £20 part so should be around the £100 mark,I honestly don't know how these crooks can keep a straight face  when invoicing these ludicrous amounts

Not defending the charge.... but an emergency call-out in London is going to be expensive.

If we pretend there is no travel time (and travel costs), then £100 less £20 for parts leaves £80 for an hour's labour.  For a professional tradesperson operating in London, with all the costs of running a business (including insurance*), £80 seems very cheap to me.

It isn't "crook[ed]" to provide a service for a premium price.  Lots of people willingly pay premiums for all kinds of things - from getting on/off a plane first, through to paying four-figures for the latest model phone.  If you want someone to come out and deal with your emergency now then you have to pay for it.

*I mention insurance specifically, because if the trader fixing the OP's toilet had caused a leak which caused flooding in one of the neighbouring flats, then I'd guess the same people who consider the trader's charges to be excessive would be here insisting the trader should pay the whole of the cleanup costs, rather than relying on the OP's own insurer to cover it.  There are various risks involved in doing jobs professionally.... traders need to price to cover those risks.

The issues here are whether the trader was up front with the OP about the charges before accepting the job, and why it was they didn't manage to fix the problem on the first visit.