Should I pay for plumber who didn’t fix problem?

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jcb208 said:

Total rip off that is 1hours Labour and a £20 part so should be around the £100 mark,I honestly don't know how these crooks can keep a straight face  when invoicing these ludicrous amounts

It's easy to get caught out and some with a smirk on their face would say, (to lighten the blow) "that will be x pounds and then hesitate for a second or two  they will add, "plus vat."

Best to try and get a quote and a keep a few numbers of local tradespeople in your phone diary.

Prices quoted by the hour - I would never trust them. They could drag it out and then go out for a part that they should have had on hand in many cases, e.g., a relatively common part for a plumber, such as a flexible hose, etc.

When booking an appointment, always ask re min callout charge and if it incs vat and what is included in the min charge. and how they charge after the min charge period and any warranties etc. Also quickly check their reviews before you call anyone. Read the negative reviews and if there is a pattern, move on to the next one.

Section62

UnsureAboutthis said:

jcb208 said:

Total rip off that is 1hours Labour and a £20 part so should be around the £100 mark,I honestly don't know how these crooks can keep a straight face  when invoicing these ludicrous amounts

It's easy to get caught out and some with a smirk on their face would say, (to lighten the blow) "that will be x pounds and then hesitate for a second or two  they will add, "plus vat."

Best to try and get a quote and a keep a few numbers of local tradespeople in your phone diary.

Prices quoted by the hour - I would never trust them. They could drag it out and then go out for a part that they should have had on hand in many cases, e.g., a relatively common part for a plumber, such as a flexible hose, etc.

When booking an appointment, always ask re min callout charge and if it incs vat and what is included in the min charge. and how they charge after the min charge period and any warranties etc. Also quickly check their reviews before you call anyone. Read the negative reviews and if there is a pattern, move on to the next one.

Difficult to do all that if you've got a burst pipe potentially causing tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage to the neighbouring flat(s).

There needs to be an understanding here that what you might do and pay in a planned situation is different to how you deal with an emergency.  Even good traders are likely to have some negative reviews, so moving on to the next one while water continues to pour from that pipe might not be the best idea.

For someone who doesn't have the confidence and/or the skills to deal with home emergencies it might be best to sign up with a home emergency cover provider (although not necessarily cheap).  For those who do have the confidence and/or skills, being able to take immediate action to mitigate the issue is key.  E.g. If you can isolate the leaking toilet and live by flushing the toilet with a bucket for a day or two then by all means take your time to find the perfect trader with very reasonable charges.

It is a norm for people providing emergency services to charge by the hour (or half-hour) - so excluding all of them from the search is likely to narrow the options somewhat.  In an emergency, charging by the hour isn't unreasonable either - because the hours spent travelling to/from and doing one job will be hours not spent on another job.  To expect an emergency response, but charging in accordance with planned work quotes just isn't realistic.

As comes up often in these rogue trader-type threads, the key is communication and understanding.  I.e. being clear about what you are getting for the money being charged.  And whether you really need all the work done as an 'emergency', or whether once the risk has been removed it would be Ok (and cheaper) to get someone else in to do a permanent repair.

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Section62 said:

UnsureAboutthis said:

jcb208 said:

Total rip off that is 1hours Labour and a £20 part so should be around the £100 mark,I honestly don't know how these crooks can keep a straight face  when invoicing these ludicrous amounts

It's easy to get caught out and some with a smirk on their face would say, (to lighten the blow) "that will be x pounds and then hesitate for a second or two  they will add, "plus vat."

Best to try and get a quote and a keep a few numbers of local tradespeople in your phone diary.

Prices quoted by the hour - I would never trust them. They could drag it out and then go out for a part that they should have had on hand in many cases, e.g., a relatively common part for a plumber, such as a flexible hose, etc.

When booking an appointment, always ask re min callout charge and if it incs vat and what is included in the min charge. and how they charge after the min charge period and any warranties etc. Also quickly check their reviews before you call anyone. Read the negative reviews and if there is a pattern, move on to the next one.

Difficult to do all that if you've got a burst pipe potentially causing tens of thousands of pounds worth of damage to the neighbouring flat(s).

There needs to be an understanding here that what you might do and pay in a planned situation is different to how you deal with an emergency.  Even good traders are likely to have some negative reviews, so moving on to the next one while water continues to pour from that pipe might not be the best idea.

For someone who doesn't have the confidence and/or the skills to deal with home emergencies it might be best to sign up with a home emergency cover provider (although not necessarily cheap).  For those who do have the confidence and/or skills, being able to take immediate action to mitigate the issue is key.  E.g. If you can isolate the leaking toilet and live by flushing the toilet with a bucket for a day or two then by all means take your time to find the perfect trader with very reasonable charges.

It is a norm for people providing emergency services to charge by the hour (or half-hour) - so excluding all of them from the search is likely to narrow the options somewhat.  In an emergency, charging by the hour isn't unreasonable either - because the hours spent travelling to/from and doing one job will be hours not spent on another job.  To expect an emergency response, but charging in accordance with planned work quotes just isn't realistic.

As comes up often in these rogue trader-type threads, the key is communication and understanding.  I.e. being clear about what you are getting for the money being charged.  And whether you really need all the work done as an 'emergency', or whether once the risk has been removed it would be Ok (and cheaper) to get someone else in to do a permanent repair.

Just to add. The bit of your post I highlighted, as I said in my post you quoted, good idea to have 2/3 local plumbers in your diary where you have already done your research.

Up until about 2 years ago, we did  have an 'emergency cover for plumbing."  We only had to use them once years ago but it took the owrry out of being cheated by a cowboy outfit on top of the plight we were in. So, shop around for this type of cover is you have busy lives etc and able to afford it for a piece of mind.

So, try to have a few plumbers in your diary - ask around neighbours etc, anyone they trust etc or go for emergency breakdown cover for plumbing/boiler etc.

WIAWSNB

In the OP's case, tho', it wasn't an emergency, and the OP had isolated the supply and was catching the drips.
Which is a shame, 'cos the OP does have 'emergency cover' included in her policy

Brouts

As a plumber myself, hearing them tell you it 'may leak for a little bit' doesn't sound good and doesn't give me much confidence in their ability.

I also don't agree with paying for a job on the spot.  It also shows me they aren't necessarily confident in what they've done and just want to take the money and run. 

Ge them back to fix it properly and no, you absolutely should not be paying them again - unless for some reason it's an unrelated issue or maybe another part also needs changing.  I don't see why a fix for a leaking toilet cistern needs to be left for a while afterwards either.  Sounds like he's bodged it to me.

Hope you get it sorted.

Section62

Brouts said:

As a plumber myself, hearing them tell you it 'may leak for a little bit' doesn't sound good and doesn't give me much confidence in their ability.

I also don't agree with paying for a job on the spot.  It also shows me they aren't necessarily confident in what they've done and just want to take the money and run. 

Ge them back to fix it properly and no, you absolutely should not be paying them again - unless for some reason it's an unrelated issue or maybe another part also needs changing.  I don't see why a fix for a leaking toilet cistern needs to be left for a while afterwards either.  Sounds like he's bodged it to me.

Hope you get it sorted.

It depends a lot on the areas you work in, and the type of customers you have.  There are plenty where if you don't have your money before you leave the job then you probably won't ever have it.  And some where you need to have it up front if you ever want to see it.

Sadly the days where a trader can post an invoice a few days after a job, and depend on having their payment within 30 days, are long gone in many cases.

It is unrealistic to expect every trader to offer 30+ days interest-free credit on the work they do, and take on the risk of non-payment.  So extrapolating payment policy as a measure of competence and quality of work isn't likely to give a helpful outcome.  If folk only want to deal with traders who give credit then they are entitled to do so, but shouldn't be surprised if they find it increasingly hard to find anyone willing to do work for them.

twopenny

Surely you are paying for a job to be done, which the tradesman has said he can do.
If it's not fixed then he needs to come back and fix it or not charge or not the full amount depending on the degree of improvement.

Did he say before he began that he might be able or it might not fix it? Did you take a chance rather than looking for someone who was more confident?

If he had expressed doubts then presumably you wouldn't have employed him.

Section62

twopenny said:

Surely you are paying for a job to be done, which the tradesman has said he can do.
If it's not fixed then he needs to come back and fix it or not charge or not the full amount depending on the degree of improvement.

Did he say before he began that he might be able or it might not fix it? Did you take a chance rather than looking for someone who was more confident?

If he had expressed doubts then presumably you wouldn't have employed him.

This is a fairly old thread... so hopefully the OP is sorted now.