Denied £299 cost of living payment due to Employers payroll mistake

born_again

singhini said:

Grumpy_chap said:

singhini said:

Benefit is not cash or a cash voucher

So an employer could stick £50 gift voucher (example: love to shop) in an envelope 

Well, that seems to be a contradiction.

singhini said:

could the employer look to reimburse the OP via expenses i.e. OP claims business mileage of 665 miles @ 45p = £299.25 (doesn't all have to be in one go, could do it over a longer period, say 3 months i.e. 222 miles per month)

I do not think it is wise for the OP to suggest that the employer commits fraud.

Its not a contradition, 

What is a cash voucher in HMRC?

Vouchers fall into two types: 'cash vouchers' and 'non-cash vouchers' with different treatment for each. A 'cash voucher' is one which can be exchanged or surrendered in return for money, e.g. a premium bond or postal order. The cash equivalent of a cash voucher is the amount of money for which it can be exchanged.
Love to shop vouchers cannot be exchanged for cash.
@Grumpy_chap

Your normally on the ball with things like this 


Agreed on point two

We used to get these love to shop vouchers when employer incentivised overtime. It was pulled around 4 years ago as tax man said would incur tax & NI as it was considered a payment to employee.
Upset a lot of people who made a lot of money out of it.

singhini

Interesting. i wonder if that was due to HMRC suggesting its a "benefit in recognition of particular services performed by the employee in the course of the employment or in anticipation of such services"

If the OP was to receive it for their Birthday, Xmas, Easter, New Years, Managers Birthday (as suggested previously), there is no "work related" link

However. if the manager did this for the OP, morally should they also do it for their other employees? (probably. i would be upset if i knew a fellow work colleague go £50 in vouchers for their Birthday but i didn't).

i think i read the employer did offer the OP £299 via their wages but the OP declined (i would have taken the offer and paid whatever small amount of tax was due rather than thinking of taking the employer to court).

Each to their own i suppose.

saajan_12

Goodness how has this thread devolved into straight up fraud?! These limits are there to separate what is honestly trivial benefits in the course of business, not to be stacked up in order to masquerade a higher amount. Why not just pay an 18k bonus in a series of £50 gift vouchers, making up a holiday for each day of the year?

The first port of call should be the government / cost of living department:

cathyr456 said:

I also raised an appeal with the COL dept, but they say they cannot order my employer to amend those payslips?   

Right, but that's not the point, the thing to appeal was can they re-calculate the COL payment based on proof from the employer that it was indeed backpay? 

Failing that, the claim against the employer would be for the indirect loss that their mistake caused. Either it should be indicated on the payslip as reimbursement for costs incurred, NOT wages or paid without mention on the payslip. Similar to expenses or other vendors, not everything goes through payslips. If they had to pay a judgement for damages, that wouldn't go on any payslip. 

kaMelo

Why does everything get unnecessarily complicated?

 The employer offered to reimburse the £299. Yes it will reduce any UC by a proportionate amount and have some tax /NI to pay but given the choice between this or suing an employer to me is a no brainier.

Choose your battles wisely, some hills are not worth dying on.

singhini

saajan_12 said:

Goodness how has this thread devolved into straight up fraud?! These limits are there to separate what is honestly trivial benefits in the course of business, not to be stacked up in order to masquerade a higher amount. Why not just pay an 18k bonus in a series of £50 gift vouchers, making up a holiday for each day of the year?

You've put a question mark ? (so i assume you want an answer). 

How?  ----->  Its based on what our politicians do (i.e. claim moats on their expenses, make fake invoices, paying for nanny's, claiming mortgages that had already been paid off, claiming mortgages that never existed, claiming £22,000 annually for overnight subsistence yet the MP went home each night [that's £22k a year for 7 years]).

Firstly; If the bonus is linked to their job you can't. Secondly; there's a limit of £300 per tax year (that's everyone and not just for directors of a "close company") and thirdly; i doubt anyone's going to wait 60 years for their £18,000 bonus.

Personally i wouldn't be thinking of taking the employer to court, i would have taken the offer the employer initially made.
The OP could try to use this situation as leverage at their next appraisal (i.e. whatever the employer offers just ask them to add a couple of £ more). Then again they might have a negative appraisal and be offered nought (i suspect theres more chance of that happening if they try to take the employer to court)

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Note to myself: i must look into "annual small gift allowance" (lets say i receive £250 from 1000 random people i would end up with £250,000 and there's no tax and no reporting. BRILLIANT!  I'm surprised those MP's aren't exploiting this).
Perhaps they are and haven't been caught yet  -----> oh dear!!!

What's that dear ------> HMRC want to talk to me on the phone  -----> apologies everyone i must go, It was nice talking to you all.

Muttleythefrog

kaMelo said:

Why does everything get unnecessarily complicated?

 The employer offered to reimburse the £299. Yes it will reduce any UC by a proportionate amount and have some tax /NI to pay but given the choice between this or suing an employer to me is a no brainier.

Choose your battles wisely, some hills are not worth dying on.

perfectly put...

Anything else seems a waste of energy and largely fruitless unless they intend to end their relationship with their employer soon as there is some indication they want to... and want to use this as the vehicle to start that process.

Chalk it up... take the money... accept some small hit consequential to everything not having been done properly... but as we know we live in a human world where get it wrong first time and you can spend a lifetime trying to turn back the clock of errors and consequences... you've been given what sounds like a very agreeable way out. I imagine they'll be more careful in future with payslips.

Life will throw far bigger battles and injustices than this.. I guarantee you.. save your energies for them.

Yamor

singhini said:

saajan_12 said:

Goodness how has this thread devolved into straight up fraud?! These limits are there to separate what is honestly trivial benefits in the course of business, not to be stacked up in order to masquerade a higher amount. Why not just pay an 18k bonus in a series of £50 gift vouchers, making up a holiday for each day of the year?

Secondly; there's a limit of £300 per tax year (that's everyone and not just for directors of a "close company")

This isn't correct. The £300 limit is only for directors of close companies.

singhini

Has HMRC confirmed that to you or are you reading it from the internet?

Yamor

Third option - I've checked the law. And so can you (or anyone) if you wish.

Edit to add: But of course HMRC's manuals also confirm this if you don't want to resort to the actual legislation.

singhini

I haven't a clue what you r going on about "edit to add"

Good luck helping the OP