Denied £299 cost of living payment due to Employers payroll mistake

huckster

It is not a direct loss. It is indirect.

The question is should the employers have been aware that payroll errors had consequences?

The Cost of Living payments were of wide public knowledge, due to Government's publicity of these. And the employers could reasonably have been aware that employees could be claiming benefit support such as Universal Credit. And that they therefore might be eligible for COL.

It is possible to claim for consequential losses, but whether a Judge hearing such a case would decide in the OP's favour is uncertain.  A very good case would have to be made.  

Grumpy_chap

cathyr456 said:

huckster said:

Issue a County Court claim against your employers, if the employer refuses to pay you an ex gratia payment of £299. 

Your employers mistake caused this loss, so it would be up to your employers to make up this loss. 

First step is to send a formal letter before claim to your employers. Give them say 21 days to pay you or you will issue a County Court claim.

Yes thats what I'm in the process of doing.....fingers crossed

Really!

What is the basis of the claim against the employer?  It is not obvious (to me at least) that the timing of their payments to you and the resulting loss of CoL is a valid claim against the employer.  You may feel aggrieved by their actions, but that does not immediately create a valid legal basis for a claim.

You state you have raised two grievances with the employer over this matter and the employer has not remedied the discrepancies in the payslips.  Did you at any time mention the option for the employer to remedy the £300 you lost out on rather than remedy the payslips?

It might be worth requesting the employer to make good the £300, but issuing legal proceedings against an employer is unlikely to end well, whether you get the £300 or not.

comeandgo

I used to be involved in payroll processing and I was not aware of which of our employees claimed benefits and nor was I interested, it was non of my business.  OP I think you should try and get a payment of something from the employer as a goodwill gesture not take them to court which I can’t see will benefit you at all.

cathyr456

comeandgo said:

I used to be involved in payroll processing and I was not aware of which of our employees claimed benefits and nor was I interested, it was non of my business.  OP I think you should try and get a payment of something from the employer as a goodwill gesture not take them to court which I can’t see will benefit you at all.

I understand. But i have tried everything. Ive appealed the decision with Universal credit, and they wont reverse it saying its my employers fault. And Ive made 2 grievances. All to no avail....;(

Grumpy_chap

cathyr456 said:

comeandgo said:

I used to be involved in payroll processing and I was not aware of which of our employees claimed benefits and nor was I interested, it was non of my business.  OP I think you should try and get a payment of something from the employer as a goodwill gesture not take them to court which I can’t see will benefit you at all.

I understand. But i have tried everything. Ive appealed the decision with Universal credit, and they wont reverse it saying its my employers fault. And Ive made 2 grievances. All to no avail....;(

The you need to balance the value of the £300 loss against the benefits and potential negatives of issuing legal claim against your current employer.

Out of interest, what is the legal basis of the claim that you are making against the employer?
Not everything that results in a negative outcome actually has a blame - it is quite possible that the employer would reply that the loss of CoL resulting from their administrative error would be reasonably unforeseeable.

cathyr456

Grumpy_chap said:

cathyr456 said:

huckster said:

Issue a County Court claim against your employers, if the employer refuses to pay you an ex gratia payment of £299. 

Your employers mistake caused this loss, so it would be up to your employers to make up this loss. 

First step is to send a formal letter before claim to your employers. Give them say 21 days to pay you or you will issue a County Court claim.

Yes thats what I'm in the process of doing.....fingers crossed

Really!

What is the basis of the claim against the employer?  It is not obvious (to me at least) that the timing of their payments to you and the resulting loss of CoL is a valid claim against the employer.  You may feel aggrieved by their actions, but that does not immediately create a valid legal basis for a claim.

You state you have raised two grievances with the employer over this matter and the employer has not remedied the discrepancies in the payslips.  Did you at any time mention the option for the employer to remedy the £300 you lost out on rather than remedy the payslips?

It might be worth requesting the employer to make good the £300, but issuing legal proceedings against an employer is unlikely to end well, whether you get the £300 or not.

Well I suppose it would be maladministration of my timecard, has resulted in this financial loss. Therefore they are responsible to make me whole (as judge Judy would say) 

I asked them to amend their submissions to HMRC for those 2 months, which would then, via a cascade effect, automatically mean Id got the COL payment. But they are saying they cant do that, and I should raise a case with HMRC. HMRC say I cannot do that either! 

They did offer to pay me the £299 in my payslip, but being as Im on UC, then that extra £299 in my pay would have other financial consequences, in terms of the UC award. And besides, the extra £299 paid via my paylsip should not be treated as wages! 

I also offered an alternative solution to my employer. They pay me the £299 outside of my payslip- which they also wont do. They offered additional holiday, to the value of £299, but to be frank, its the money I need. Not extra holiday!! 

Im kinda beyond caring about the relationship with my employer, so I see legal action as my only solution!

cathyr456

huckster said:

It is not a direct loss. It is indirect.

The question is should the employers have been aware that payroll errors had consequences?

The Cost of Living payments were of wide public knowledge, due to Government's publicity of these. And the employers could reasonably have been aware that employees could be claiming benefit support such as Universal Credit. And that they therefore might be eligible for COL.

It is possible to claim for consequential losses, but whether a Judge hearing such a case would decide in the OP's favour is uncertain.  A very good case would have to be made.  

What would you suggest would make a good claim. Ive got all the evidence.....;)

Spoonie_Turtle

cathyr456 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

cathyr456 said:

huckster said:

Issue a County Court claim against your employers, if the employer refuses to pay you an ex gratia payment of £299. 

Your employers mistake caused this loss, so it would be up to your employers to make up this loss. 

First step is to send a formal letter before claim to your employers. Give them say 21 days to pay you or you will issue a County Court claim.

Yes thats what I'm in the process of doing.....fingers crossed

Really!

What is the basis of the claim against the employer?  It is not obvious (to me at least) that the timing of their payments to you and the resulting loss of CoL is a valid claim against the employer.  You may feel aggrieved by their actions, but that does not immediately create a valid legal basis for a claim.

You state you have raised two grievances with the employer over this matter and the employer has not remedied the discrepancies in the payslips.  Did you at any time mention the option for the employer to remedy the £300 you lost out on rather than remedy the payslips?

It might be worth requesting the employer to make good the £300, but issuing legal proceedings against an employer is unlikely to end well, whether you get the £300 or not.

Im kinda beyond caring about the relationship with my employer, so I see legal action as my only solution!

Genuine, neutral question: Do you have another job lined up? 

I just ask because you might care if things turn really sour, and you'll be a lot worse off than £299 if you end up between jobs without any wages coming in.  Don't forget you are better off working by 45% of your wages at least, if not more if you have the work allowance.

cathyr456

Grumpy_chap said:

cathyr456 said:

comeandgo said:

I used to be involved in payroll processing and I was not aware of which of our employees claimed benefits and nor was I interested, it was non of my business.  OP I think you should try and get a payment of something from the employer as a goodwill gesture not take them to court which I can’t see will benefit you at all.

I understand. But i have tried everything. Ive appealed the decision with Universal credit, and they wont reverse it saying its my employers fault. And Ive made 2 grievances. All to no avail....;(

The you need to balance the value of the £300 loss against the benefits and potential negatives of issuing legal claim against your current employer.

Out of interest, what is the legal basis of the claim that you are making against the employer?
Not everything that results in a negative outcome actually has a blame - it is quite possible that the employer would reply that the loss of CoL resulting from their administrative error would be reasonably unforeseeable.

I suppose it would be maladministration. And they were made aware of that maladministration at the time. But I suppose my problem is the unforeseeable bit. 
Having said that, its not unreasonable of me as an employee, to expect that the managers employed to administer my timecard, are reasonably competent? So maybe my claim comes under 'the right to a correct payslip' 

Grumpy_chap

cathyr456 said:

Well I suppose it would be maladministration of my timecard, has resulted in this financial loss. Therefore they are responsible to make me whole (as judge Judy would say) 

I asked them to amend their submissions to HMRC for those 2 months, which would then, via a cascade effect, automatically mean Id got the COL payment. But they are saying they cant do that, and I should raise a case with HMRC. HMRC say I cannot do that either! 

They did offer to pay me the £299 in my payslip, but being as Im on UC, then that extra £299 in my pay would have other financial consequences, in terms of the UC award. And besides, the extra £299 paid via my paylsip should not be treated as wages! 

I also offered an alternative solution to my employer. They pay me the £299 outside of my payslip- which they also wont do. They offered additional holiday, to the value of £299, but to be frank, its the money I need. Not extra holiday!! 

Im kinda beyond caring about the relationship with my employer, so I see legal action as my only solution!

So, I will ask again, what is the legal basis of any claim you might attempt to submit against the employer.
Is "maladministration of timecard" a valid basis?
In the real world rather than day-time TV pseudo drama-courtroom.

Forget the idea of changing the payslips.  That can't be done, or won't be done.

You really might be worth maintaining a positive and constructive dialogue with the employer. 

They have agreed to pay you the £299 via payroll.  This is then subject to income tax, NI, and will impact the UC award for the period.

You suggested that they pay the money outside of payroll, which the employer cannot do.  There are very limited ways that an employer can make payments to an employee outside of payroll and not fall foul of legislation.

Have you sought to politely explain that the £299 CoL would have been a net payment to your account and not subject to deductions?
Have you requested the employer to make good via payroll, but a larger sum that means you receive £299 after all deductions (and after the impact to that period's UC award)?
If this is kept adult, the employer might be amenable to such a remedy.

As for not caring about the relationship with the employer, this has been put very succinctly:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Genuine, neutral question: Do you have another job lined up? 

Grumpy_chap said:

issuing legal proceedings against an employer is unlikely to end well