Football shirt refund

d0nnyoz

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

One thing to note here is that the regs require the consumer to return the goods within 14 days of notifying of their intent to cancel. 

If OP intends to follow through with small claims they should return the shirt (address is in T&Cs, Royal Mail Tracked 48 is cheap and generally reliable).

I don't know what would take more weight, the retailer denying the right of cancellation or the consumer failing in their obligation to return.

Of course the consumer has the right to unwind the contract for being misled about their rights but if that is the angle taken that should be the argument put to the court. 

The issue here is that if you do read their response to my initial request to return the items, which they say cannot be returned, but if you do, they will return the items to you and the consumer will be charged for the postal cost of that return.
So although I am quite willing to return the items, I feel UKsoccershop will 'lose' the items and say that I never returned them (I would obviously have some sort of proof of receipt if I use RM Special Delivery), and I also feel I would lose the weight of the evidence if I don't have the item and argue that I still had them after the 14 day window because the trader refused to accept the return!

Okell

I did ask this a couple of days ago but I don't think you've answered - how far into the 14 day cancellation window are you?  ie when did you take delivery of the shirt.

Also, have you actually clearly told UKSoccerShop at any point that you want to "cancel" the contract?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

d0nnyoz said:they will return the items to you and the consumer will be charged for the postal cost of that return.

Not sure how they are going to charge you, if they charge your card there is the option of a chargeback or add their charge to your claim.

d0nnyoz said:

So although I am quite willing to return the items, I feel UKsoccershop will 'lose' the items and say that I never returned them (I would obviously have some sort of proof of receipt if I use RM Special Delivery), and I also feel I would lose the weight of the evidence if I don't have the item and argue that I still had them after the 14 day window because the trader refused to accept the return!

Regs state

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—

(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or

(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

So they have to refund within 14 days of you showing you posted it back.

If it goes missing in transit Royal Mail will cover you, if they try to say there was a problem, given how obstructive they've been thus far it wouldn't look favourable upon them. 

As I say you can change tact and exercise the right to unwind the contract due to being mislead about your rights but it's probably easier to post the shirt back and go with cancellation rights. 

Worst case you lose a £70 shirt that doesn't fit but I think it's unlikely  

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

One thing to note here is that the regs require the consumer to return the goods within 14 days of notifying of their intent to cancel. 

If OP intends to follow through with small claims they should return the shirt (address is in T&Cs, Royal Mail Tracked 48 is cheap and generally reliable).

I don't know what would take more weight, the retailer denying the right of cancellation or the consumer failing in their obligation to return.

Of course the consumer has the right to unwind the contract for being misled about their rights but if that is the angle taken that should be the argument put to the court...

Yes - it might be that the OP should just return the shirt to UKSoccerShop before they possibly run out of time. 

It's not clear to me either when the OP received the shirt or whether they have yet clearly told the trader that they are cancelling the contract or whether they have simply told them that they want to return or exchange the shirt.

According to the trader's T&Cs if a consumer cancels a contract the consumer is reponsible for returning the goods, so it makes no difference in terms of cost.  The OP is worried that if he just returns the goods then the trader will send them back to him again at his cost.

However, if the OP doesn't return the shirt because the trader has wronlgy told him that he can't cancel the shirt because it's been personalised, I'd be very disappointed if a court then found against the OP because he hadn't returned the goods.  But who knows.

There's also the question of whether the trader's T&Cs are compliant with the Regulations: Uksoccershop FAQs: Terms and Conditions

Also, without seeing the exact content of the discussion between the OP and UKSoccerShop, I can't help wondering if the OP has not been as assertive as he could have been.  I know the trader won't want to refund but I'm surprised that in the face of government guidance giving the specific example of a soccer shirt with a team player's name on it they are still claiming it is personalised - despite clear government guidance to the contrary.

d0nnyoz

Just to clarify, I have emailed them and stated I want to cancel the contract. They have replied and said I can't.
Item was ordered on 20th May and received on 31st May.
Birthday was 13th June.
Initial contact was made with the trader on the 13th June stating the shirt was too small and I wish to request a refund.
Notified of cancellation of the contract on 16th June.

Alderbank

When you ordered the shirt did UKsoccershop email you clear information about your statutory right to cancel including the procedure for cancelling and the time window you had to cancel?
If not, did they include a printout of this information packed with the shirt?

It doesn't sound like they did. If so, you are still in time to cancel. The CCR regs gives you14 days from when the seller informs you about your rights in a durable form such as an email or hard copy.

Okell

Alderbank said:

When you ordered the shirt did UKsoccershop email you clear information about your statutory right to cancel including the procedure for cancelling and the time window you had to cancel?
If not, did they include a printout of this information packed with the shirt?

It doesn't sound like they did. If so, you are still in time to cancel. The CCR regs gives you14 days from when the seller informs you about your rights in a durable form such as an email or hard copy.

UKSoccerShop's T&Cs do tell the consumer that they have up to 14days after delivery in which to cancel the contract, and that the consumer must pay for the return 

However:

1.  they don't tell you that you have a further 14 days after cancellation in which to return the goods;

2.  they try to tell the consumer that any shirts with printed names on are personalised and can't be cancelled;

3.  They say they won't accept returns unless in original packaging.  

It might be argued that although the OP didn't clearly tell the trader that they were cancelling until after 14 dys had expired, that the rest of the trader's T&Cs misrepresent the consumer's right to cancel so badly, that the cancellation period is extended under para 31 of the regs

Okell

d0nnyoz said:

Just to clarify, I have emailed them and stated I want to cancel the contract. They have replied and said I can't.
Item was ordered on 20th May and received on 31st May.
Birthday was 13th June.
Initial contact was made with the trader on the 13th June stating the shirt was too small and I wish to request a refund.
Notified of cancellation of the contract on 16th June.

So you received the goods on 31 May but didn't tell them you were cancelling until 16 June?

d0nnyoz

Okell said:

d0nnyoz said:

Just to clarify, I have emailed them and stated I want to cancel the contract. They have replied and said I can't.
Item was ordered on 20th May and received on 31st May.
Birthday was 13th June.
Initial contact was made with the trader on the 13th June stating the shirt was too small and I wish to request a refund.
Notified of cancellation of the contract on 16th June.

So you received the goods on 31 May but didn't tell them you were cancelling until 16 June?

Yes, was ordered early because of the birthday date.
And I wasn't aware of the notice to say cancellation until I read about it on here.
Initial contact was made once the garment was tried on (13th June), then the commotion about not being to return the item and then this discussion.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said: the cancellation period is extended under para 31 of the regs

I would agree