Football shirt refund

Okell

born_again said:

Is Scottish law any different on this  🤣


These Terms and Conditions and any contracts made under them are governed by and shall be governed and construed in accordance with the laws of Scotland whose courts shall be courts of exclusive competent jurisdiction. We make no representation that materials on this Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations, and accessing them from territories where their contents are illegal is prohibited. Customers who access this website from locations outside the United Kingdom do so at their own risk and on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws, to the extent that any local laws are applicable. Nothing in these Terms shall in any way be deemed to restrict or affect your statutory rights under Scottish law.

If you are asking a serious question (   ) then from the Explanatory note to The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

"The Regulations extend to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland."

Okell

Grumpy_chap said:

This exact question about football shirts being personalised has arisen in the forums before.

IIRC, the previous threads have concluded that if you order a shirt that is, essentially, repeatable (Manchester United printed with "Beckham 7") then that is not customisation.

If you order a shirt that is not repeatable ("Grumpy_Chap 13") then that would be customisation.

While I think you* are 100% right I think I'd prefer to avoid words like "customisation" (or even "bespoke") and to use the actual terminology of the legislation - ie:  "... goods that are made to the consumer's specifications or are clearly personalised".

To me both of those exceptions to the right to cancellation are narrower in scope and more specific than either "customised" or "bespoke".

Just to add, I look a little unfavourably on those traders who do refer to the consumer's right to cancel in their T&Cs, but who don't use the words of the legislation and try to make vaguer and wider in scope.  eg in this case the trader refers to shirts that have been "printed" as if that is synonymous with "... made to the consumer's specifications or are clearly personalised" - it isn't.

I also note that the trader here tries to exclude the right to cancel from shirts that have a player's name and/or number on "...  if the player leaves the club or changes their number".  I'm pretty certain that isn't lawful under the regulations either and might be a clear breach of the consumer protection reulations


*I'm not criticising you here.  I just think it's helpful to remind ourselves of the precise wording of what is excluded from the right to cancel under the regs and not to start using other wording

d0nnyoz

Hoenir said:

d0nnyoz said:

Hoenir said:

What was the nature of the "printing" ? 

It was a shirt with a players name on the back. It was a pre-printed shirt and advertised as such. I did not request any printing or personalistion.
Strangely, the particular shirt has now become 'out of stock' and now not to be seen on their website. You can see other shirts on there and can select what name you want from a list, but on the shirt we purchased there was no option of selecting a name/player. It was a straight player shirt and we could only select the size.

Was the same club shirt available with other players names on? 

I don't think this particular shirt was available with any other printing on it. It was a blue Uruguay shirt with 'D Nunez' printed above a number 11. I had no choice in what printing it had - it was sold that way.

d0nnyoz

There is an AWAY shirt advertised here...
https://www.uksoccershop.com/p-272574/2022-2023-uruguay-away-shirt-d-nunez-11.html

As you can see, the default for the shirt is what is listed. You can actually select other Uruguayan players to go on the shirt. Does that define 'customisation'? It is not personalisation.

d0nnyoz

born_again said:

Is Scottish law any different on this  🤣


These Terms and Conditions and any contracts made under them are governed by and shall be governed and construed in accordance with the laws of Scotland whose courts shall be courts of exclusive competent jurisdiction. We make no representation that materials on this Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations, and accessing them from territories where their contents are illegal is prohibited. Customers who access this website from locations outside the United Kingdom do so at their own risk and on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws, to the extent that any local laws are applicable. Nothing in these Terms shall in any way be deemed to restrict or affect your statutory rights under Scottish law.

I do note that this is a business based in Glasgow!

d0nnyoz

Some further comments from their T&C's....

"We regret that we are unable to cancel orders for personalised items - including all form of printed shirts, both personal and player names - once the personalisation process has begun."

"Personalised items refer to any product which is customised - either with your personal name or of any player, past of present. It also includes any customisation such as initials or squad numbers.

UKSoccershop regret that once an order containing personalised items have been picked, it cannot be changed or cancelled.

All personalised items cannot be returned unless deemed to have a genuine fault of manufacturer.

UKSoccershop reserve the right to utilise our knowledge and expertise and positioning of the personalisation on the product. Examples shown on the website are for illustrative purposes only and may vary depending on the specific item. Please contact our team before ordering if you require further information about the finished look.

Our experienced team will also choose the most appropriate colour for the personalisation. However, we will accept requests for a specific colour, but you should contact us prior to placing the order to request this as we may be unable to change once the order has been processed through our system."

Okell

@d0nnyoz -  it doesn't matter what their T&Cs say, the law is as I stated in my first post yesterday at 6:10pm

Go back to them and tell them that under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 you have the legal right under a distance contract to inform them within 14 days of delivery of the goods that you are cancelling the contract* for a full refund.  You then have a further 14 days in which to return the goods to them**.  (NB - depending on their T&Cs you may have to pay for the return)

So far as your purchase is concerned, they can only refuse your right to cancel if the shirt was "... made to [your] specifications or [is] clearly personalised".  (See para 28(1)(b) of the above regulations).

If you have bought an off-the-peg Uruguayan shirt with the default name "D Nunez" on the back, that is neither made to your specification nor clearly personalised.

Note that their T&Cs saying that any "printed" shirts cannot be cancelled is not legally compliant and is quite possibly a criminal offence under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 insofar as it is giving misleading and incorrrect information as to the extent of your legal rights as a consumer.  (You might want to point that out very gently to them...)


*Make sure you tell them that you are returning the goods because you are cancelling the contract.  Don't mention any other reason that might suggest you are doing anything other than cancelling the contract.

**  Make sure you keep evidence/proof of returning the goods.  It's important if they should "go astray".


[Edit:  Added word "default" in para 4 for clarity.  See link: 2022-2023 Uruguay Away Shirt (D Nunez 11) [77028501-272574] - Uksoccershop ]

Okell

d0nnyoz said:

... The shirt was far too small and wanted to exchange it for a larger size...

Just for clarity, are they actually refusing to allow you to exchange for a larger size?

Okell

Regarding the more general question of drop down menus and selection boxes in respect of "personalisation" and "own specifications", other posters might be interested to note that if you search the forum for UKsoccershop there is a post from @bod1467 on 04 August 2014 that says:

"Selections made from options available on a website is NOT personalisation. I don't know if this changed with the recent Consumer Contract Regulations, but under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations this fact was clearly identified."  [My bold for emphasis]


[Edit:  Yes, I know those regs have been superseded by the CCRs but I'm just pointing out that under the regs that were formerly applicable it was - apparently - clear that selections made from options made available by the trader were not "personalised"]

Grumpy_chap

Okell said:

Regarding the more general question of drop down menus and selection boxes in respect of "personalisation" and "own specifications", other posters might be interested to note that if you search the forum for UKsoccershop there is a post from @bod1467 on 04 August 2014 that says:

"Selections made from options available on a website is NOT personalisation. I don't know if this changed with the recent Consumer Contract Regulations, but under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations this fact was clearly identified."  [My bold for emphasis]


[Edit:  Yes, I know those regs have been superseded by the CCRs but I'm just pointing out that under the regs that were formerly applicable it was - apparently - clear that selections made from options made available by the trader were not "personalised"]

There have been threads far more recently than 2014 where references have been provided to confirm the selection from standard choices via drop down boxes is not "bespoke" or "personalised" or "custom".