Football shirt refund

d0nnyoz

The returns process on the UKsoccershop website states that you need to select the product from your orders page and then request a return through that method. Unfortunately, their website will not allow me to follow that process.



Not sure on my next steps as UKsoccershop have basically decided to ignore me and have not responded to my last email (yesterday). I realise I should give them a little more time but given that their replies are always with a couple of hours, I sense they feel they have said thier piece and will just ignore any further requests.

SO I think I will lodge my complaint through the CAB for them to submit it to Trading Standards?

powerful_Rogue

d0nnyoz said:

The returns process on the UKsoccershop website states that you need to select the product from your orders page and then request a return through that method. Unfortunately, their website will not allow me to follow that process.



Not sure on my next steps as UKsoccershop have basically decided to ignore me and have not responded to my last email (yesterday). I realise I should give them a little more time but given that their replies are always with a couple of hours, I sense they feel they have said thier piece and will just ignore any further requests.

SO I think I will lodge my complaint through the CAB for them to submit it to Trading Standards?

If CAB refer it to Trading Standards then it won't assist you in anyway as they don't deal with individual complants. Your next step will be a Letter Before Action and then small claims court process.

Okell

@d0nnyoz -  as @powerful_Rogue has said, complaining to CAB and asking them to refer to Trading Standards won't help you - at least not directly.  You still need to deal with UKSoccerShop

I think I mentioned CAB/TS in an earlier post because I think that UKSoccerShop might be guilty of a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Regulations in that they are misleading you as to your right to cancel a contract.  They are trying to tell you that you can't cancel this contract because the printed shirt is "personalised", but as discussed above ordering a name from a drop down box is not "personalisation" and they are misrepresenting the law in telling you this.  The body responsible for prosecuting offences under these Regulations is Trading Standards, so that's why you need to go to CAB.  (Apparently Trading standards can't be contacted directly* and you have to go via CAB).  Whike CAB will probably give you useful advice - the same advice as we've given you hopefully - Trading Standards will not give you any help, but you might be able to use them to increase the pressure on the trader.

As @powerful_Rogue has said, if you can't settle this with the trader you will have to consider suing them, which will mean first sending a Letter Before Action or Letter Before Claim.  You can Google these terms to see what they mean.  If you are lucky UKSoccershop might fold if you send such a letter and cough up without you having to issue a claim.  If they won't cough up after a Letter Before Claim, you will have to decide whether to sue them

A possible complication is that as UKSoccershop is based in Scotland(?) you would have to sue them under the Scottish system.  I can't help you with that but I'm sure others can.

However, before you go down that route I suggest you contact them one more time by email.  Reiterate the arguments run through earlier in this post as to why they are wrong that shirts with a name printed from a drop down box are "personalised" and therefore can't be cancelled.  

See what others think as they may disagree with me, but I'd also be tempted to add to that email something like:

"In addition I am concerned that by misrepresenting my right to cancel a distance contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 by wrongly claiming that my shirt is personalised when it clearly is not, you are committing an offence under Part 3 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and I shall be referring your T&Cs and returns policy to Trading Standards Scotland".

Give them 48 hours to respond

If you get no satisfaction after that your only remaining course of action is Letter Before Claim and then sue them.



*  I say you can't contact TS directly but you could always try to speak to them for advice - they must get lots of complaints about this trader - 0141 287 1061  Contact Us - Trading Standards Scotland

d0nnyoz

Seems like they're up for the fight!

Ergates

In some ways their actual Terms and Conditions aren't wrong.   The error is that they don't apply in this situation.

*IF* a customer has personalised something, then it can't be returned.  This is a fine.   

But - you *haven't* personalised it, so it's irrelevant.

Okell

Ergates said:

In some ways their actual Terms and Conditions aren't wrong.   The error is that they don't apply in this situation.

*IF* a customer has personalised something, then it can't be returned.  This is a fine.   

But - you *haven't* personalised it, so it's irrelevant.

But I would argue that their T&Cs are wrong - and are potentially illegal - for at least three reasons:

1.  they say that "We regret that we are unable to cancel orders for personalised items - including all form of printed shirts, both personal and player names - once the personalisation process has begun."   Regarding the bit I've put in bold, it can't possibly be compliant with the CCRs to say that they can't cancel "all form of printed shirt" - they can only refuse to cancel personalised ones - and, as everyone except UKSoccerShop agrees, this shirt wasn't personalised.  Uksoccershop FAQs: Terms and Conditions

2.  Although they do say that the consumer has 14 days from delivery in which to cancel a contract, they do not explain that the consumer has a further 14 days after that in which to return the goods.  That is misleading and I would argue wrong.

3.  Under the T&C heading "Cancellation" they say they won't accept returns unless they are in their original packaging.  As a trader they cannot refuse to accept a cancellation (and related return) provided they have been notified of the cancellation within 14 days of delivery and provided the goods have been sent back within a further 14 days of that notification.  The best they can do is reduce the consumer's refund to reflect any dimunition in the loss of value.  I can't believe the absence of the original packaging would reduce the shirt's value to zero.

I would argue that all three of the above points are statements or representations that could mislead consumers as to their cancellation rights under the CCRs, and could possibly amount to breaches of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading regs

Okell

d0nnyoz said:

Seems like they're up for the fight!

Well if that's their final word (did you email them one last time as I suggested yesterday?) you're going to have to decide if you want to write off the cost of the shirt or take it further.

I don't know what the equivalent of small claims is in Scotland and I don't know the procedure, but if it's similar to England & Wales and you want to pursue this further you will need to send a Letter Before Claim (Google for details).

If they won't cough up after that, you will need to decide if you want to sue them.  If you issue a court claim there will be a fee that you have to pay.  (I don't know what it is in Scotland).

If you win you will be refunded the cost of the shirt and the claim issue fee.  If you lose you will have lost the cost of the shirt and the claim fee.  If it gets to court no-one can guarantee that you will win the case, but the consensus of opinion here is that UKSoccerShop are wrong because (1) your shirt was not "personalised" within the context of the cancellations regulations, and (2) therefore you are entitled to cancel the contract.

born_again

Ergates said:

In some ways their actual Terms and Conditions aren't wrong.   The error is that they don't apply in this situation.

*IF* a customer has personalised something, then it can't be returned.  This is a fine.   

But - you *haven't* personalised it, so it's irrelevant.

Not defending them here. Just a point.

These companies could keep a stock of blank shirts, then when someone chooses a name by drop down list (I know that it is not counted as personalised, but a text box is going to see some interesting wrong spelling & complaints, even not companies fault) They then print the shirt to customers personalised order 🤷‍♀️
So maybe this is another case where the regulations are not as they should be.

d0nnyoz

born_again said:

Ergates said:

In some ways their actual Terms and Conditions aren't wrong.   The error is that they don't apply in this situation.

*IF* a customer has personalised something, then it can't be returned.  This is a fine.   

But - you *haven't* personalised it, so it's irrelevant.

Not defending them here. Just a point.

These companies could keep a stock of blank shirts, then when someone chooses a name by drop down list (I know that it is not counted as personalised, but a text box is going to see some interesting wrong spelling & complaints, even not companies fault) They then print the shirt to customers personalised order 🤷‍♀️
So maybe this is another case where the regulations are not as they should be.

These are my thoughts too!
I'm thinking they cover themselves by saying that because the customer has chosen a name to be printed (it could be any name rather than a 'personlised' name), then the customer has personalised, or customised it, in their eyes!
And, in a way, I tend to agree with that. As @born_againsays, they will have a stock of shirts with no printing on them and then print them as requested. Whether that is defined is 'personalised' or 'customised' is the issue here.

And the regulations are not clear here, in my view. They say that as long as the shirt is not personalised or customised, but going back to my point above, it may be considered personalised/customised because I have chosen a name from a drop-down list. (As I mentioned previously, I am pretty certain this was a product that did not have a name selection for it, but it may still have been a blank shirt they had and needed printing accordingly.)

I might send them a letter before claim and see what that does.
Question: If I do send them a letter before claim, does that commit me to going through with the process?
Or if they go for the brink, can I just use that as a bluff and pull-out?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

d0nnyoz said:

Question: If I do send them a letter before claim, does that commit me to going through with the process?

No  

d0nnyoz said:

And the regulations are not clear here, in my view. 

Only guidance but: 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021XC1229(04)&qid=1640961745514

Specification/personalisation in this context should be taken to mean that the goods are, in principle, unique and produced according to the individual wishes and requirements stated by the consumer and agreed with the trader.

In contrast, where the consumer simply makes up the goods by picking from the standard (pre-set) options provided by the trader, it should not be possible to speak of either ‘specification’ or ‘personalisation’ in the narrow sense of this provision. Thus, the exception would not apply in the following examples:

—	choosing furniture with specific colour or texture by selecting from the manufacturer’s catalogue;

—	car with additional equipment, selected from the manufacturer’s catalogue;

—	a set of furniture on the basis of standard elements.