Football shirt refund

Okell

Grumpy_chap said:

Okell said:

Regarding the more general question of drop down menus and selection boxes in respect of "personalisation" and "own specifications", other posters might be interested to note that if you search the forum for UKsoccershop there is a post from @bod1467 on 04 August 2014 that says:

"Selections made from options available on a website is NOT personalisation. I don't know if this changed with the recent Consumer Contract Regulations, but under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations this fact was clearly identified."  [My bold for emphasis]


[Edit:  Yes, I know those regs have been superseded by the CCRs but I'm just pointing out that under the regs that were formerly applicable it was - apparently - clear that selections made from options made available by the trader were not "personalised"]

There have been threads far more recently than 2014 where references have been provided to confirm the selection from standard choices via drop down boxes is not "bespoke" or "personalised" or "custom".

Yes.  that's what I thought but I couldn't find any.  I only found the above by searching for UKsoccershop as I thought they'd cropped up before.  (And they have!)

Of course we've also had other posters saying that despite guidance to the contrary that drop down options etc are examples of "customisation" and can't be cancelled

born_again

Okell said:

born_again said:

Is Scottish law any different on this  🤣


These Terms and Conditions and any contracts made under them are governed by and shall be governed and construed in accordance with the laws of Scotland whose courts shall be courts of exclusive competent jurisdiction. We make no representation that materials on this Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations, and accessing them from territories where their contents are illegal is prohibited. Customers who access this website from locations outside the United Kingdom do so at their own risk and on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws, to the extent that any local laws are applicable. Nothing in these Terms shall in any way be deemed to restrict or affect your statutory rights under Scottish law.

If you are asking a serious question (   ) then from the Explanatory note to The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

"The Regulations extend to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland."

Yes it was, given the number of different rules/laws Scotland has over the rest of the UK 👍

d0nnyoz

Had a response from them this morning stating...

"This is simply not accurate. You have chosen to personalise the item from the product page.
Our system logs everything so we can conclusively prove this."

This was in response to my statement about not being able to chose any name for the shirt - it was not a choice.

My next question is now what do I do??
I have written back them with a more curt response stating some of the words that @Okell has mentioned. But I don't think they are for budging so I wondered what my next steps are? I believe I am in the right here and this company are just pulling the wool over peoples eyes relating to refunds and exchanges, and I am prepared to challenge them.

Ergates

d0nnyoz said:

Had a response from them this morning stating...

"This is simply not accurate. You have chosen to personalise the item from the product page.
Our system logs everything so we can conclusively prove this."

This was in response to my statement about not being able to chose any name for the shirt - it was not a choice.

My next question is now what do I do??
I have written back them with a more curt response stating some of the words that @Okell has mentioned. But I don't think they are for budging so I wondered what my next steps are? I believe I am in the right here and this company are just pulling the wool over peoples eyes relating to refunds and exchanges, and I am prepared to challenge them.

Sounds like they're either mistaken or lying.

If you've not done so already, take screenshots of their website (various ones, going through the order system) in case they change it.

Okell

d0nnyoz said:

Had a response from them this morning stating...

"This is simply not accurate. You have chosen to personalise the item from the product page.
Our system logs everything so we can conclusively prove this."

This was in response to my statement about not being able to chose any name for the shirt - it was not a choice.

My next question is now what do I do??
I have written back them with a more curt response stating some of the words that @Okell has mentioned. But I don't think they are for budging so I wondered what my next steps are? I believe I am in the right here and this company are just pulling the wool over peoples eyes relating to refunds and exchanges, and I am prepared to challenge them.

As @Ergates says they are either mistaken or lying.  Either way they are wrong - you have not "personalised" the shirt - you have simply chosen an option that they have offered on their website.  That is not "personalisation" and it doesn't mean you can't cancel the contract.

I have done as @Ergates suggested and gone through the selection process to get the shirt you bought

ie  > UKsoccershop > International > Uruguay > 2022-2023 Uruguay away shirt > Choose a PLAYER'S name and number > D NUNEZ 11

Selecting a real life player's name and number from a drop down list provided by the trader is NOT personalising the shirt.

Go back to them and point this out.

To back up your argument you can refer to the Chartered Trading Standards Institute's "Business Companion".  Home | Business Companion.

In giving examples of goods that are NOT personalised and are NOT made to the customer's specifications they give "... items made to a customer's specification simply by combining stock items - for example, a computer put together from stocked parts or a car ordered from a fixed menu of items."  (Consumer contracts: distance sales | Business Companion) 

I can see no difference between that and your football shirt.  The "fixed menu of items" here being the exclusive list of player names and numbers in the drop down box.

If they won't play ball you will have to consider suing them.  You may also want to complain to CAB and ask them to raise a formal complaint with Glasgow Trading Standards as I think the trader is breaching the Consumer Protection legislation by falsely claiming that you cannot cancel the contract. 


[NB  -  one important thing I don't understand.  You say you went straight to that shirt without choosing any options.  How did you do that because I can't find the D NUNEZ 11 shirt without first selecting his name and number?  I don't think it makes any difference, but are you sure you simply found his shirt as the default without selecting his name?]

Okell

Also see this from the Government's own guidance when The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 was introduced:

"[Question]  I sell premier league football shirts online. Customers can order a shirt with their own name on it or that of a premier league team player. Can the consumer change their mind after they have ordered?

 [Answer] 13. Items made to a particular, often unique specification are exempt from cancellation rights on the basis that a trader might otherwise be left with a product so specific to a particular consumer’s needs that there is no other market for it once the consumer has cancelled the contract. Judgements of what is truly bespoke will, therefore, inevitably be on a case by case basis. In the above case, the customer should be able to cancel a shirt bearing a team player name on it. However, a shirt bearing their own name would be likely to constitute a personalised item to which cancellation rights do not apply."  [My bold for emphasis]

Consumer contracts (information, cancellation and additional charges) regulations implementing guidance

And from the same page:

"14. An item made up following a consumer order does not necessarily make it a bespoke item which is exempt from cancellation rights. An item, for example a sofa or computer, can be assembled following an order but the component parts may be made up of parts offered from a standard range. So, for instance, a sofa where the consumer chooses a fabric and colour from a range on offer will not be bespoke for the purposes of these Regulations. However, if the consumer asks the trader to source a special finish and which is not in the range generally offered by the trader, that is likely to be a bespoke item."   [My bold for emphasis]

Okell

And I know we are no longer in the EU but I suspect a court would place reliance on the EU guidance to the EU directive on which our cancellation right is based.

At para 5.11.2 it says that the "made to the consumer's specifications" exception to the right to cancel would:

"... cover, for example:

*	goods, for which the consumer has provided specifications, such as measurements for furniture or the size of a fabric;

*

goods, for which the consumer has requested specific personalised features, such as a particular design for a car that is made to order or a specific component for a computer, which has to be individually procured for that particular order and which was not part of the trader’s general offer to the public;

* address labels with the consumer’s contact information.

Specification/personalisation in this context should be taken to mean that the goods are, in principle, unique and produced according to the individual wishes and requirements stated by the consumer and agreed with the trader.

In contrast, where the consumer simply makes up the goods by picking from the standard (pre-set) options provided by the trader, it should not be possible to speak of either ‘specification’ or ‘personalisation’ in the narrow sense of this provision. Thus, the exception would not apply in the following examples:

*	choosing furniture with specific colour or texture by selecting from the manufacturer’s catalogue;

*	car with additional equipment, selected from the manufacturer’s catalogue;

*	a set of furniture on the basis of standard elements"

EUR-Lex - 52021XC1229(04) - EN - EUR-Lex

In this current thread the OP has simply chosen a name and number from a closed selection of standard and pre-set options on the trader's website, so the OP's choice of name and number cannot be said to be clearly personalised or made to their specification.  It's all been chosen from pre-determined options selected by the trader, not the consumer.

Ergates

Okell said:

"[Question]  I sell premier league football shirts online. Customers can order a shirt with their own name on it or that of a premier league team player. Can the consumer change their mind after they have ordered?

 [Answer] 13. Items made to a particular, often unique specification are exempt from cancellation rights on the basis that a trader might otherwise be left with a product so specific to a particular consumer’s needs that there is no other market for it once the consumer has cancelled the contract. Judgements of what is truly bespoke will, therefore, inevitably be on a case by case basis. In the above case, the customer should be able to cancel a shirt bearing a team player name on it. However, a shirt bearing their own name would be likely to constitute a personalised item to which cancellation rights do not apply."  [My bold for emphasis]

Given this is pretty much the exact situation the OP is in, then it seems pretty cut and dried!!

Okell

Ergates said:

Okell said:

"[Question]  I sell premier league football shirts online. Customers can order a shirt with their own name on it or that of a premier league team player. Can the consumer change their mind after they have ordered?

 [Answer] 13. Items made to a particular, often unique specification are exempt from cancellation rights on the basis that a trader might otherwise be left with a product so specific to a particular consumer’s needs that there is no other market for it once the consumer has cancelled the contract. Judgements of what is truly bespoke will, therefore, inevitably be on a case by case basis. In the above case, the customer should be able to cancel a shirt bearing a team player name on it. However, a shirt bearing their own name would be likely to constitute a personalised item to which cancellation rights do not apply."  [My bold for emphasis]

Given this is pretty much the exact situation the OP is in, then it seems pretty cut and dried!!

I can't really take the credit for it.  I lfted it from a post from @Ergates that I found after a search!   

d0nnyoz

Okell said:

[NB  -  one important thing I don't understand.  You say you went straight to that shirt without choosing any options.  How did you do that because I can't find the D NUNEZ 11 shirt without first selecting his name and number?  I don't think it makes any difference, but are you sure you simply found his shirt as the default without selecting his name?]

Yes, with this shirt, I don't believe there was an option to choose any player from a list. It's difficult to remember as almost all of their shirts seem to have that option when I look on the site now. But my grandson is adamant that there was no choice. And I don't remember seeing a list of names to choose. Also, we have a direct link to this shirt in particular and when we click on that link now, it says it is out of stock. My assumption is that if they had this shirt they would be offering it with the different selection of names, but they don't!