URGENT HELP SON DISCIPLINARY MEETING

MissScott1501

MissScott1501 said:

NCC1701-A said:

MissScott1501 said:

......
It's not right for anyone to go through this without factual evidence and just based on someone's opinion and perspective. 

In employment law an employer does not have to prove something happened, just have a reasonable belief it did, and believing one person over another is common. So if the manager believes he did drive carelessly, aggressively or anything else that is enough.

given he has less than 2 years employment and could just be told don't come back, he is lucky they are following a process.

it still doesn't make sense to me, on top of previous points/ queries I'm not aware of any bmw dealers that are so far away from a petrol station you need to drive at 60mph to get there.

It is a bypass road around a town which is about a mile long on the a66 which is a national speed limit road.  Between two roundabouts.   

You can either drive through the town or go via the bypass.  And it's quicker and less congested to go on the bypass. 

swingaloo

When coming off the last exit we think this is where the complainant saw him, they were coming down a hill to join the roundabout
My son was the lead car coming off the roundabout  and accelerated to the speed limit of then 40mph.    Maybe the sound and quickness of the car made it look fast and aggressive to one person but would not to someone else. 

I think this is where the reasoning falls down and you are clutching at straws here.
 How can you assume that it was someone coming down a hill to join a  roundabout? If your son came off a roundabout as the lead car then whoever was coming to join the roundabout would have to give way and wait to join the traffic and so could not be behind your son to read the number plate.

oldernonethewiser

MissScott1501 said:

There is alot of confusions in the case.

He was driving with the flow of traffic on an a road between two roundabout with a 60mph speed limit. 

Obviously he slowed down when approaching the roundabout and he was going right round it to come off at the last exit. 

When coming off the last exit we think this is where the complainant saw him, they were coming down a hill to join the roundabout
 
My son was the lead car coming off the roundabout  and accelerated to the speed limit of then 40mph.    Maybe the sound and quickness of the car made it look fast and aggressive to one person but would not to someone else.  

This is my problem.  Without any actual footage of the event it is one person's opinion over a other. 

It's quite hard to get all the facts from the other person's complaint when we only have a paragraph in the letter with the managers comments about the complaint and what he said was said in the meeting with my son.   

The letter does state possible gross misconduct for possibly bringing the Company into dispute and in bold letters that a possible outcome could be summary dismissal. 

We have not been given all the facts from the complaint in writing.  

Hence why I am posting in here,  as it seems they have already made their mind up.   

It's not right for anyone to go through this without factual evidence and just based on someone's opinion and perspective. 

You have made your mind up that the employer has decided what to do.  

If the company wanted rid of him much easier to just dismiss him, as they can, without the palaver of this meeting. 


Nothing to be done until the meeting takes place so little point in over analysing everything. 

Make sure your son has a copy of the company disciplinary procedure. 

MissScott1501

swingaloo said:

When coming off the last exit we think this is where the complainant saw him, they were coming down a hill to join the roundabout
My son was the lead car coming off the roundabout  and accelerated to the speed limit of then 40mph.    Maybe the sound and quickness of the car made it look fast and aggressive to one person but would not to someone else. 

I think this is where the reasoning falls down and you are clutching at straws here.
 How can you assume that it was someone coming down a hill to join a  roundabout? If your son came off a roundabout as the lead car then whoever was coming to join the roundabout would have to give way and wait to join the traffic and so could not be behind your son to read the number plate.

This is also what we can't understand either.   

My son was told in the meeting that this is where he was seen. But we don't have this in writing to confirm.   

 Hense the total confusion in the case. 

I can only go by what my son is telling me and what is in the letter he received.     We haven't been given any copies of the investigation that was done by the company.  Which took them 4 hours to do.

Complaint received at 12pm when my son was told about it, they did checks on the cars data and  he had a meeting at 4.55 lasted less than 5 mins for his side,  he was panicing before he went in.  And was told him he would need to attend a disciplinary meeting and he was given a letter the next day.

That was Tuesday and Wednesday this week.  And the meeting is on this Tuesday at 1pm.  No much time to join and union and have a rep go with him with them all being closed over the Easter period.   And he is not confident or experienced enough to go in on his own. 

He has continued to go into work since this but the affect on him is not good.   Very anxious and down.  Does not understand why someone would do this.    

MissScott1501

oldernonethewiser said:

MissScott1501 said:

There is alot of confusions in the case.

He was driving with the flow of traffic on an a road between two roundabout with a 60mph speed limit. 

Obviously he slowed down when approaching the roundabout and he was going right round it to come off at the last exit. 

When coming off the last exit we think this is where the complainant saw him, they were coming down a hill to join the roundabout
 
My son was the lead car coming off the roundabout  and accelerated to the speed limit of then 40mph.    Maybe the sound and quickness of the car made it look fast and aggressive to one person but would not to someone else.  

This is my problem.  Without any actual footage of the event it is one person's opinion over a other. 

It's quite hard to get all the facts from the other person's complaint when we only have a paragraph in the letter with the managers comments about the complaint and what he said was said in the meeting with my son.   

The letter does state possible gross misconduct for possibly bringing the Company into dispute and in bold letters that a possible outcome could be summary dismissal. 

We have not been given all the facts from the complaint in writing.  

Hence why I am posting in here,  as it seems they have already made their mind up.   

It's not right for anyone to go through this without factual evidence and just based on someone's opinion and perspective. 

You have made your mind up that the employer has decided what to do.  

If the company wanted rid of him much easier to just dismiss him, as they can, without the palaver of this meeting. 


Nothing to be done until the meeting takes place so little point in over analysing everything. 

Make sure your son has a copy of the company disciplinary procedure. 

Thank you.  We have copies.  

oldernonethewiser

MissScott1501 said:

swingaloo said:

When coming off the last exit we think this is where the complainant saw him, they were coming down a hill to join the roundabout
My son was the lead car coming off the roundabout  and accelerated to the speed limit of then 40mph.    Maybe the sound and quickness of the car made it look fast and aggressive to one person but would not to someone else. 

I think this is where the reasoning falls down and you are clutching at straws here.
 How can you assume that it was someone coming down a hill to join a  roundabout? If your son came off a roundabout as the lead car then whoever was coming to join the roundabout would have to give way and wait to join the traffic and so could not be behind your son to read the number plate.

This is also what we can't understand either.   

My son was told in the meeting that this is where he was seen. But we don't have this in writing to confirm.   

Was he told that it was a person driving down a hil that saw him or is this speculation?

 Hense the total confusion in the case. 

I can only go by what my son is telling me and what is in the letter he received.     We haven't been given any copies of the investigation that was done by the company.  Which took them 4 hours to do.

Complaint received at 12pm when my son was told about it, they did checks on the cars data and  he had a meeting at 4.55 lasted less than 5 mins for his side,  he was panicing before he went in.  And was told him he would need to attend a disciplinary meeting and he was given a letter the next day.

What was he asked at this meeting? To confirm he was the driver or other things? 

That was Tuesday and Wednesday this week.  And the meeting is on this Tuesday at 1pm.  No much time to join and union and have a rep go with him with them all being closed over the Easter period.   And he is not confident or experienced enough to go in on his own. 
The policy will no doubt identify who can accompany him. 

He has continued to go into work since this but the affect on him is not good.   Very anxious and down.  Does not understand why someone would do this.    

Possibly because of his driving behaviour?

Perception is all important.  

Let us know how things go on Tuesday. 

Ayr_Rage

I think you need a dose of reality, young lads with access to flash cars aren't likely to drive them like Miss Daisy and don't think for one minute he has told you the whole story.

Someone has most likely reported him because they really believed he was driving badly.

They could have dismissed him on the spot, however they seem to be following the correct process so he'll have to attend the meeting and plead his case.

MissScott1501

Ayr_Rage said:

I think you need a dose of reality, young lads with access to flash cars aren't likely to drive them like Miss Daisy and don't think for one minute he has told you the whole story.

Someone has most likely reported him because they really believed he was driving badly.

They could have dismissed him on the spot, however they seem to be following the correct process so he'll have to attend the meeting and plead his case.

I am under no illusions.   But I do know my son.   He is a car lover hence why he is so upset and worried about this.   

Grumpy_chap

There might be a more more than coincidence that, of all the possible cars from a BMW dealership that your son could have been driving, the car that generated the report of irresponsible driving was one of the most performance cars the brand offer.

I think some of the comments would hinder the OP's son in any defence.  Introducing previously undeclared and undiagnosed illnesses to use as disability discrimination card does rather look like clutching at straws.  

The best thing the OP can probably do to support her son will be to challenge the son from a starting position that the son was in the wrong to drive at the full detail of what happened.    The OP does not need to believe that the son was in the wrong, but a firm and in depth discussion from that view point might help both the OP and the son prepare for the son's meeting next week.

I have to be honest, at the start of this thread, I did wonder whether this was the local carwash at out nearby Supermarket where, last week, we took out car for a clean and on arrival noted that the car wash staff were cruising the carpark in a BMW M4 Competition Convertible with the hood down and music blaring.  I have never seen them do that in any other car and, again, was it coincidence that the car they chose was one of the most powerful cars they'll get landing in the car wash?  (The owner was away.)

MissScott1501 said:

MissScott1501 said:

NCC1701-A said:

MissScott1501 said:

......
It's not right for anyone to go through this without factual evidence and just based on someone's opinion and perspective. 

In employment law an employer does not have to prove something happened, just have a reasonable belief it did, and believing one person over another is common. So if the manager believes he did drive carelessly, aggressively or anything else that is enough.

given he has less than 2 years employment and could just be told don't come back, he is lucky they are following a process.

it still doesn't make sense to me, on top of previous points/ queries I'm not aware of any bmw dealers that are so far away from a petrol station you need to drive at 60mph to get there.

It is a bypass road around a town which is about a mile long on the a66 which is a national speed limit road.  Between two roundabouts.   

You can either drive through the town or go via the bypass.  And it's quicker and less congested to go on the bypass. 

Can't be Teeside then as there is a Shell garage less than 1/4 mile away...

MissScott1501

My husband and I went through what happened in detail with my son, But with little information about the actual complaint and the actual location of it.  How can we fully prepare,  this is not the first time he has drove a high performance company car, he does this weekly.

who he works for is not a small garage by any means.

We are not using the disability card for discrimination in any means.   He won't handle being in there on his own without panicking and being over anxious.

As previously stated we are unable to get a union rep in time and there is no collegaue who can support him.  We are the only family he has to help.

I actually thought posting on here for advice and to see if anyone else had similar experience would help.  But the opposite seems to have happened.   I am more worried and anxious now that my son will have to attend this meeting on his own and end up dismissed for not being able to speak up for himself and state his case clearly and accurately due to anxiety and panic.      Not what I expected at all.