Please help with this heat pump dilemma

Sandwich

I’m looking for advice on a heat pump install and facing a few issues. The biggest problem is space: my current airing cupboard (which holds a cylinder linked to a back boiler system) has a depth of just 480 mm. E.ON told me the Ideal system they offer needs at least 650 mm, and the Vaillant AroTHERM won’t fit either. Is there a good heat pump system with a narrower cylinder that would fit in this space? As an alternative, I do have a larger space under the stairs with more depth and width, but it’s restricted in height. E.ON only do the Ideal and Vaillant systems so I will need to find another installer as well.

I’d also prefer the Vaillant AroTHERM system, but E.ON said I can’t have it because I’ve got suspended timber floors on the ground floor. Is this a real limitation? What’s the issue with suspended floors and this system?

Lastly, E.ON said they’d cap off the old pipework under the ground floor and run new pipes externally, boxing them in internally where needed. But Aira said they’d just keep the existing pipework and replace the radiators. Do I actually need the pipework replaced, or is it safe to keep the original runs?

Any advice or experiences welcome – many thanks.

FlorayG

Have you spoken with Octopus? I don't know the dimensions of the cylinder they plan to install for me but they said it was an extra narrow one to fit my space

NedS

We have a Joule slimline cylinder, and the cylinder itself is 480mm diameter and that is before any of the pipework or fittings attached. Installed, it occupies a footprint of approximately 600x700mm.

I think you may be struggling to accommodate a conventional cylinder, even a slimline model, in a space of 480mm.

barker77

NedS said:

We have a Joule slimline cylinder, and the cylinder itself is 480mm diameter and that is before any of the pipework or fittings attached. Installed, it occupies a footprint of approximately 600x700mm.

I think you may be struggling to accommodate a conventional cylinder, even a slimline model, in a space of 480mm.

Is that 600 wide or deep? 

QrizB

Sandwich said:

I’m looking for advice on a heat pump install and facing a few issues. The biggest problem is space: my current airing cupboard (which holds a cylinder linked to a back boiler system) has a depth of just 480 mm. E.ON told me the Ideal system they offer needs at least 650 mm, and the Vaillant AroTHERM won’t fit either. Is there a good heat pump system with a narrower cylinder that would fit in this space?

This Grant cylinder claims to be 478mm diameter:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Grant-QRSC150SL-Quick-Recovery-Single-Coil-Slimline-Cylinder---150L/p/293890

Grant heat pumps aren't the best-of-the-best but they're OK, my parents have one.

Data sheet here (see page 2 for the slimline models):

https://media.wickes.co.uk/is/content/wickes/GPID_5000122857_TECH_0

Alternatively, is there any scope that you could just demolish the cupboard then re-build it around your new cylinder? Is it just studding, or are we talking load-bearing walls?

matelodave

how about one of these - https://newarkcylinders.co.uk/heatgeekministore/

benson1980

Do you have a loft space that could accomodate a cylinder?

To answer the other queries suspended floors have no bearing (other than insulation properties or lack thereof) on choice of ASHP specifically so not sure what they are talking about there. Furthermore I'd also be asking for reasons as to why the existing pipework is deemed to be insufficient (flow restrictions etc). 

NedS

barker77 said:

NedS said:

We have a Joule slimline cylinder, and the cylinder itself is 480mm diameter and that is before any of the pipework or fittings attached. Installed, it occupies a footprint of approximately 600x700mm.

I think you may be struggling to accommodate a conventional cylinder, even a slimline model, in a space of 480mm.

Is that 600 wide or deep? 

It's ~600mm wide and 700mm deep, as the diverter valves and controller are fitted to the front of the cylinder which add significantly to the raw circumference of the cylinder itself.

This is a pre-plumbed slimline tank. A non pre-plumbed option may be better as the installer will have more scope to place things where these is the most space so may be able to get creative with the installation.

Sandwich

benson1980 said:

Do you have a loft space that could accomodate a cylinder?

To answer the other queries suspended floors have no bearing (other than insulation properties or lack thereof) on choice of ASHP specifically so not sure what they are talking about there. Furthermore I'd also be asking for reasons as to why the existing pipework is deemed to be insufficient (flow restrictions etc). 

I do have loft space, but the technician said the cylinder weighs 180kg when full, so I'd probably need a survey and work done. 

The issue with the Vaillant system is supposedly that because it uses R290 refrigerant, if it leaks it could accumulate under the floor and be a fire hazard. Don't know if that's true. 

Sandwich

QrizB said:

Sandwich said:

I’m looking for advice on a heat pump install and facing a few issues. The biggest problem is space: my current airing cupboard (which holds a cylinder linked to a back boiler system) has a depth of just 480 mm. E.ON told me the Ideal system they offer needs at least 650 mm, and the Vaillant AroTHERM won’t fit either. Is there a good heat pump system with a narrower cylinder that would fit in this space?

This Grant cylinder claims to be 478mm diameter:

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Grant-QRSC150SL-Quick-Recovery-Single-Coil-Slimline-Cylinder---150L/p/293890

Grant heat pumps aren't the best-of-the-best but they're OK, my parents have one.

Data sheet here (see page 2 for the slimline models):

https://media.wickes.co.uk/is/content/wickes/GPID_5000122857_TECH_0

Alternatively, is there any scope that you could just demolish the cupboard then re-build it around your new cylinder? Is it just studding, or are we talking load-bearing walls?

The space is wide enough and tall enough. It's something like 700mm wide, but only 480mm deep. I can'd demolish behind it because it's a load bearing wall, and I don't want to build out because it's in a hallway and would look wrong. 

I do have a cupboard in what's going to be the home office that is nearly big enough, but I'd have to extend it a bit. Not ideal, but doable. 

benson1980

Sandwich said:

benson1980 said:

Do you have a loft space that could accomodate a cylinder?

To answer the other queries suspended floors have no bearing (other than insulation properties or lack thereof) on choice of ASHP specifically so not sure what they are talking about there. Furthermore I'd also be asking for reasons as to why the existing pipework is deemed to be insufficient (flow restrictions etc). 

I do have loft space, but the technician said the cylinder weighs 180kg when full, so I'd probably need a survey and work done. 

The issue with the Vaillant system is supposedly that because it uses R290 refrigerant, if it leaks it could accumulate under the floor and be a fire hazard. Don't know if that's true. 

I’d definitely explore the loft option. You can get horizontal cylinders, or reinforce/ spread the load if installing a vertical. Plenty of installs (including ours) have it in the loft.

As for refrigerant, I don’t get that. The refrigerant is in the unit outside. How would it leak under the floorboards?