Distance selling regulations - Car Refund in full, or can they keep money

beno2k7

Hello

I recently paid for a car (It is new, it had a good saving from RRP). Manufacturer-approved dealer etc.

£500 reservation fee on a credit card.
£31500 Bank Transfer.

I have not seen the car, never visited the dealership, only spoke over the phone, only seen stock images of the car. So I know this is a distanced sale.

The car was going to be brought from another showroom, to this showroom. I was die to collect on Friday.

I have canceled it, they have my £32,000 at the moment.

They have said that they will refund me £31, 589

Even though the garage has incurred a cost to move the vehicle into their stock, this wasn't a delivery price for me.

Am I able to receive a full refund here or should I forgo the £411, which I really don't want to do.

My understanding is this is a distance sale and therefore I should be able to recoup all this money.

Please let me know, and if so, any relevant documentation

Thanks

Jenni_D

What do the terms say as to when a contract is formed? If the contract is formed on payment then the seller is allowed to retain an amount to cover incurred costs* due to your breach of contract. Whether £411 is a reasonable amount is hard to say.

* they technically could retain an amount to cover loss of profit, but as they retain the goods and they've suffered no loss of value due to your handling then you could easily sue them over this if they tried it.

beno2k7

Here are the T&Cs, I don't want to rock the boat so to speak, so would like to ideally get my money back first and chase the remaining cost after

Jenni_D

Those seem to align with the CCR 2013 ... however I can't see anything there as to when the contract is formed. (i.e. the point at which both parties become bound by the contract). Until the contract is formed then either party is free to withdraw at no cost or liability.

Exodi

A tad harsh, especially with a reservation fee paid.

They're clearly aware of the CCR as they've pretty much quoted it word for word.

beno2k7

Exodi said:

A tad harsh, especially with a reservation fee paid.

They're clearly aware of the CCR as they've pretty much quoted it word for word.

So how should I respond

Should I ask them for the full amount, get this back and then seek the rest?

beno2k7

Update - they are now keeping £500

Please see the earlier pic of terms they are referring to.

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We have incurred the cost of transportation which I could not cancel, this was a cost to us of £500 + VAT (I haven’t charged the VAT as we don’t pay it)

 14.1 is if you have taken possession of the vehicle, which you have not.

 As per 13.1 we can retain any costs incurred to your specific order.

Given that we have sourced a vehicle based on your order which you knew about, if it had been a stock car that was here we would not be keeping any deposits, but now we have vehicle that we have paid for and transported for you specific order that we would not of had otherwise, this is fair for us to retain the transport cost’s, the situation is not ideal for any of us, but we cannot just write off £500 of costs.

-------------

The costs being exactly £500 seems a bit dubious.

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

Exodi

beno2k7 said:

Exodi said:

A tad harsh, especially with a reservation fee paid.

They're clearly aware of the CCR as they've pretty much quoted it word for word.

So how should I respond

Should I ask them for the full amount, get this back and then seek the rest?

Sorry, I fear you've misunderstood me - I think you're the one being harsh. Personally I'm suprised they don't suggest keeping the whole reservation fee given how you've dealt with this.

EDIT: I've just read your latest response stating that they are now.

beno2k7 said:

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

I'm trying not to let my personal opinion that you are the one being unreasonable here cloud my response, so I would simply remind that if you had taken physical delivery of the car and then returned it used, they would have been entitled to make a reasonable deduction on account of that (which would likely be significantly more than just £500 given the immediate depreciation on new vehicles).

Penguin_

beno2k7 said:

Update - they are now keeping £500

Please see the earlier pic of terms they are referring to.

----------

We have incurred the cost of transportation which I could not cancel, this was a cost to us of £500 + VAT (I haven’t charged the VAT as we don’t pay it)

 14.1 is if you have taken possession of the vehicle, which you have not.

 As per 13.1 we can retain any costs incurred to your specific order.

Given that we have sourced a vehicle based on your order which you knew about, if it had been a stock car that was here we would not be keeping any deposits, but now we have vehicle that we have paid for and transported for you specific order that we would not of had otherwise, this is fair for us to retain the transport cost’s, the situation is not ideal for any of us, but we cannot just write off £500 of costs.

-------------

The costs being exactly £500 seems a bit dubious.

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

All depends when the contract was formed, you'll need to look at the Ts&Cs as a whole.

You put a deposit & paid for a car which they then had to pay to transport from another dealership which they are entitled to recover.

beno2k7

Penguin_ said:

beno2k7 said:

Update - they are now keeping £500

Please see the earlier pic of terms they are referring to.

----------

We have incurred the cost of transportation which I could not cancel, this was a cost to us of £500 + VAT (I haven’t charged the VAT as we don’t pay it)

 14.1 is if you have taken possession of the vehicle, which you have not.

 As per 13.1 we can retain any costs incurred to your specific order.

Given that we have sourced a vehicle based on your order which you knew about, if it had been a stock car that was here we would not be keeping any deposits, but now we have vehicle that we have paid for and transported for you specific order that we would not of had otherwise, this is fair for us to retain the transport cost’s, the situation is not ideal for any of us, but we cannot just write off £500 of costs.

-------------

The costs being exactly £500 seems a bit dubious.

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

All depends when the contract was formed, you'll need to look at the Ts&Cs as a whole.

You put a deposit & paid for a car which they then had to pay to transport from another dealership which they are entitled to recover.

Where would I find this information? 

I provided my credit card details over the phone for the £500 reservation fee on the 17th, prior to order form being sent to me. As we were on a phone call.

The credit card transaction was definitely pending on the night of the 17th.

In my credit card it says it was taken on the 18th (The bank cannot see the 17th as a date)

I then got the order form on the morning of the 18th

I then paid the remaining balance on the 18th.

Where the date signed on the order form is the 18th?

I really don't want to get into a spitting match with them, but I think it is entirely unreasonable that they have withheld the entire amount, given that transportation fees will not have got to the £500 mark. 

Would chargeback be a possibility here OR Section 75 given the total amount is over £30k

Penguin_

beno2k7 said:

Penguin_ said:

beno2k7 said:

Update - they are now keeping £500

Please see the earlier pic of terms they are referring to.

----------

We have incurred the cost of transportation which I could not cancel, this was a cost to us of £500 + VAT (I haven’t charged the VAT as we don’t pay it)

 14.1 is if you have taken possession of the vehicle, which you have not.

 As per 13.1 we can retain any costs incurred to your specific order.

Given that we have sourced a vehicle based on your order which you knew about, if it had been a stock car that was here we would not be keeping any deposits, but now we have vehicle that we have paid for and transported for you specific order that we would not of had otherwise, this is fair for us to retain the transport cost’s, the situation is not ideal for any of us, but we cannot just write off £500 of costs.

-------------

The costs being exactly £500 seems a bit dubious.

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

All depends when the contract was formed, you'll need to look at the Ts&Cs as a whole.

You put a deposit & paid for a car which they then had to pay to transport from another dealership which they are entitled to recover.

Where would I find this information? 

I provided my credit card details over the phone for the £500 reservation fee on the 17th, prior to order form being sent to me. As we were on a phone call.

The credit card transaction was definitely pending on the night of the 17th.

In my credit card it says it was taken on the 18th (The bank cannot see the 17th as a date)

I then got the order form on the morning of the 18th

I then paid the remaining balance on the 18th.

Where the date signed on the order form is the 18th?

I really don't want to get into a spitting match with them, but I think it is entirely unreasonable that they have withheld the entire amount, given that transportation fees will not have got to the £500 mark. 

Would chargeback be a possibility here OR Section 75 given the total amount is over £30k

I would guess, from when I worked in a dealership that this was when the contract was formed. 

Can you say for certain it wouldn't have cost them £500 for this. When I worked in a dealership, we used an external company & it cost several hundred of pounds to transport cars between branches.