Distance selling regulations - Car Refund in full, or can they keep money

Jenni_D

Maybe link us to the full T&Cs so we can look ourselves?

Them retaining a sum for costs incurred is perfectly valid, given that it is you who is seeking to breach the contract*. Whether the exact deposit amount is reasonable is open to question ... other dealerships often claim a £100 cost to transfer vehicles between sites (e.g. Evans Halshaw, from memory) so you could maybe request that they justify their deduction in writing (i.e. how they've reached that figure - I agree that the deposit amount is too convenient).

* IF you're in breach. You're only in breach if the contract has actually already been formed. Hence the criticality of the full T&Cs.

A chargeback could be a possibility, but they could easily challenge it and you're back to the contract-or-not position. S75 may be more problematic because the transaction amount is >£30k. S75A applies for >£30k and there are more stringent requirements for that I believe.

Exodi

beno2k7 said:

I really don't want to get into a spitting match with them, but I think it is entirely unreasonable that they have withheld the entire amount, given that transportation fees will not have got to the £500 mark. 

You say you don't want to get into a spitting match with them, but simultaneously refuse to accept any of the costs incurred by your actions?

Despite the irony of suggesting they are being entirely unreasonable, how much do you suggest the transportation fees should be then? What about the time spent organising everything? You started off by refusing £400.

I can't see the point of action through CC provider against the supplier - you are the one that breached the contract, not them.

born_again

beno2k7 said:

Penguin_ said:

beno2k7 said:

Update - they are now keeping £500

Please see the earlier pic of terms they are referring to.

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We have incurred the cost of transportation which I could not cancel, this was a cost to us of £500 + VAT (I haven’t charged the VAT as we don’t pay it)

 14.1 is if you have taken possession of the vehicle, which you have not.

 As per 13.1 we can retain any costs incurred to your specific order.

Given that we have sourced a vehicle based on your order which you knew about, if it had been a stock car that was here we would not be keeping any deposits, but now we have vehicle that we have paid for and transported for you specific order that we would not of had otherwise, this is fair for us to retain the transport cost’s, the situation is not ideal for any of us, but we cannot just write off £500 of costs.

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The costs being exactly £500 seems a bit dubious.

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

All depends when the contract was formed, you'll need to look at the Ts&Cs as a whole.

You put a deposit & paid for a car which they then had to pay to transport from another dealership which they are entitled to recover.

Where would I find this information? 

I provided my credit card details over the phone for the £500 reservation fee on the 17th, prior to order form being sent to me. As we were on a phone call.

The credit card transaction was definitely pending on the night of the 17th.

In my credit card it says it was taken on the 18th (The bank cannot see the 17th as a date)

I then got the order form on the morning of the 18th

I then paid the remaining balance on the 18th.

Where the date signed on the order form is the 18th?

I really don't want to get into a spitting match with them, but I think it is entirely unreasonable that they have withheld the entire amount, given that transportation fees will not have got to the £500 mark. 

Would chargeback be a possibility here OR Section 75 given the total amount is over £30k

No S75 as over £30K. Chargeback on what basis?

Aylesbury_Duck

Surely you just ask them to show that they did spend £500 on transportation, and f they can do so, then it's a fair amount to withhold.  If they can't, or if the sum is less than £500, you have something to negotiate with, but knowing that they're also allowed to make a reasonable deduction for administrative costs.  e.g. the transporting company may have charged the dealer £300 and they're retaining £200 as a reasonable cost of the administration your cancelling of the contract has cost them.

Alderbank

Jenni_D said:

Them retaining a sum for costs incurred is perfectly valid, given that it is you who is seeking to breach the contract*. 

My understanding is that the OP is not seeking to breach the contract, but is seeking his consumer right to cancel the contract under s29 of the CCR.

@beno2K7, what date did you give your notice to cancel, what form was it given in (eg. snail mail?) what address did you send it to and what was your exact wording?

About the only thing they can charge you for when cancelling under s29 is extra cost of expedited delivery (reg 34(3).
Bringing it from a distant dealership in less than a week is fairly quick. Was there any discussion such as saying something like you should have it by the end of March but for an additional charge you could have it in three days?

beno2k7

Alderbank said:

Jenni_D said:

Them retaining a sum for costs incurred is perfectly valid, given that it is you who is seeking to breach the contract*. 

My understanding is that the OP is not seeking to breach the contract, but is seeking his consumer right to cancel the contract under s29 of the CCR.

@beno2K7, what date did you give your notice to cancel, what form was it given in (eg. snail mail?) what address did you send it to and what was your exact wording?

About the only thing they can charge you for when cancelling under s29 is extra cost of expedited delivery (reg 34(3).
Bringing it from a distant dealership in less than a week is fairly quick. Was there any discussion such as saying something like you should have it by the end of March but for an additional charge you could have it in three days?

They wanted to have it registered by the end of March as they get a bonus from the manufacturer.

They bought it into their stock, but this was to my understanding, not delivery to me.

They do have a clause that states things about delivery costs, but I certainly don't think it was expedited, I told them over the phone on 24th March morning and followed up with an email 30 mins later before lunch.

My email for cancellation was on 24th March

I was due to collect the car on the 28th of March

The car is already back on AutoTrader and says it must be registered by 31st March

Personally, I think this will sell by the end of today. The last one that was on there sold in under 2 hrs (I know because this is what got me in touch with this garage, I missed that one and the sales manager said he would source one for me and bring it into his stock)

As far as I can tell, this was not delivery for me, otherwise, he could have dropped it off at my house, this was delivery to his branch. I agreed to pick it up from his branch. I also don't see anywhere that the deposit is not refundable, and as I understood it, it was a reservation fee, but that is not in email, it was spoken and I have no proof of that.

I understand it is not an ideal situation, but by acting in good faith and cancelling at the earliest opportunity, they can now say it isn't a distance sale apparently as I did not ever pick up the car, had I done so, I could have insanely returned it used for an entire refund.

Penguin_

If it was a brand new car & from outside their dealership "group" it would have had to been delivered to their site for inspections & checks to ensure everything was ok with the car. 

beno2k7

Exodi said:

beno2k7 said:

Exodi said:

A tad harsh, especially with a reservation fee paid.

They're clearly aware of the CCR as they've pretty much quoted it word for word.

So how should I respond

Should I ask them for the full amount, get this back and then seek the rest?

Sorry, I fear you've misunderstood me - I think you're the one being harsh. Personally I'm suprised they don't suggest keeping the whole reservation fee given how you've dealt with this.

EDIT: I've just read your latest response stating that they are now.

beno2k7 said:

Are they able to do this, just because I have not taken possession of the vehicle, by not visiting the dealership, I am not allowed to return under distance selling regulations. This doesn't seem right?

So, in essence, I'd have been better getting the vehicle and returning it used rather than notifying them in advance so they can sell it in fresh condition?

I'm trying not to let my personal opinion that you are the one being unreasonable here cloud my response, so I would simply remind that if you had taken physical delivery of the car and then returned it used, they would have been entitled to make a reasonable deduction on account of that (which would likely be significantly more than just £500 given the immediate depreciation on new vehicles).

Yeah, so they have actually kept the whole reservation fee of £500, I can see both sides of it but I am sure this car will sell. 

I totally understand I have caused the inconvenience and I am sure a lot of work was undertook, but that being said, I need to do what is best for me and my family and the long and short of it was a fairly impulsive decision based on a saving was not the right one. If I have to stomach a £500 then I will, and I have gave my unreserved apologies to the dealership. To quote my wife "I should feel excited about buying a new car, not be up for nearly 2 nights second guessing it"

But I do believe the car will sell, be registered before end of March, help him meet his bonus quota and with that said, if that happens I feel like there is no harm no foul.

In the event they do suffer a loss, happy to some extent to forgo a reasonable loss on my part for their deliver charge, but given the prior phone call with the dealer I was not led to believe that cancelation would be a cost to me of £500, he said a small fee for delivery.

Okell

Perhaps I'm mssing something obvious here, but I don't understand why the OP would not be entitled to a refund of the full amount he has paid under para 34 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.  That says the seller must refund all payments.

The fact the dealer spent £500 moving it from site A to site B so that the OP could collect it from site B is neither here nor there as far as I can see, and it shouldn't be the OP's problem.

Also I'm not quite sure why some posters think it matters when the contract was entered into, or think that the OP is in breach, or think that a reservation fee is relevant?

Okell

@Jenni_D -  why do you think the OP may be in breach?  Isn't he just exerecising his statutory right to cancel for a full refund?

@Exodi -  why do you think the OP is being unreasonable (or a tad harsh) for exercising their statutory right to cancel for a full refund of all payments he has made?