2 problems, financial association and money spending OH!

ZTD

happyhappygal wrote: »

I don't think so. Its manageable and you will get rid.

It's manageable under the present circumstances, but there is a limited amount of maneuvering room.

happyhappygal wrote: »

FC123 - I thought that the above was not very helpful, reassuring or realisitic.

It was not all that reassuring, but it was both helpful and realistic.

Adrasteia01

ZTD wrote: »

It's manageable under the present circumstances, but there is a limited amount of maneuvering room.


It was not all that reassuring, but it was both helpful and realistic.

I agree with ZTD. Sorry, but I think I would find that level of debt quite disconcerting, but then I'm also earning less than either of you. It's half the value of a house (in some places, anyway).

I think it is wrong of banks etc to lend people up to their yearly salary in loans and credit cards, as it can be SO difficult to repay that amount of money in a reasonable amount of time without running up large amounts of interest. I say avoid any more debt where possible (unless you're saving money by doing so).

All the best,
Tamara

mandelbrotlondon

Hi hon,

I think before you get married it is imperative that you get this issue sorted. I know it may seem like this is something which you can compartmentalise away from the rest of your relationship, but long term it will negatively affect your relationship....money is one of the top reasons why couples argue.

I know an elderly couple who had pretty much the same dynamic....he was careful with money and lived below his means whereas she thought that she could go abroad six times a year (no kidding), fly business class, shop regularly at Harrods, and overspend on her credit cards by thousands of pounds on useless tat for herself. And her attitude was pretty much "I deserve this, and I'm going to get upset if I don't get it". Every time I saw them (they were parents of a friend) she was sulking because she hadn't been able to get her husband to borrow money off his relatives to fund her extravagances (they would have gone bankrupt long ago if the husband hadn't gone to all his relatives to ask for money). Even their sons had to fund their holidays! They are quite an extreme example, but my point is the poor husband was doing exactly what you are doing now....being the responsible one whilst his partner is acting like a spoilt child, and he ended up spending a lot of his life worrying about the finances and being forced to go cap in hand to borrow money from relatives (which of course he could never pay back) whilst his partner just acted all upset if he suggested she cut back. It was horrible to watch, horrible for my friend to grow up in, and I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

I echo other posters on the board when they say that it is up to your partner to make the decision to be responsible for her finances. Although of course you can discuss stuff with her, you should not be the one to have to suggest things ... you need to get to the situation where she has the right mentality and takes the initiative, otherwise you are falling into a "parent-child" kind of dynamic where you are the one making all the effort and having all the stress, and it really isn't fair on you...you are suggesting a course of action that is going to make both of you much happier long term so why is it just you who has to take the responsibility?

In terms of getting your partner on board, I wonder if taking a slightly creative approach might work? Look at why she needs to spend so much. For example, I ended up overspending and getting into some debt over the last few years (which I'm now slogging away to pay off :rolleyes: ) because:

1. I had just made a whole new group of friends who ate out/went to relatively expensive things/travelled very frequently and I wanted to fit in

2. I was a bit insecure about my appearance so I spent a lot on clothes and make-up.

3. I wasn't "happy" with my life situation overall so I compensated by buying stuff.

Over the last few months I've spent a tiny fraction of what I did then, but I'm so much more content with my life...I spend a lot of time working on my business, and when I do get spare moment I'm doing something free or cheap like browsing on this site, going to a gallery (with a packed lunch) or reading.

So maybe it might be worth looking deeper at why your partner is feeling she has to overspend. You could also offer her an idea of how your lifestyle can be just as good or even better if she spends less. You mentioned you are renting-can you get her excited about buying a house in the future? Ok, she might need to cut down on going out with her mates, but you can instigate cool cheap stuff for you and her to do together-make a packed lunch and take her out to the country walking for a day (and she can bring her mates as well). If she is buying too much from Waitrose, rather than tell her to stop spending money there, offer to cook dinner together and go round with her picking cheaper ingredients in Tescos. She needs to see that its not a case of either she overspends and has fun or she budgets and is miserable, and that this budgeting thing can be very pleasurable.


Good luck whatever you do. I know this post and maybe some others might sound a bit harsh on your missus, but its just that being in debt is miserable enough without having to worry about your OH not supporting your efforts, so please just take what you find useful and feel free to ignore the rest!


xx

splishsplash

Hi Firsttimebuyer,
I think a lot of people here are giving you sound advice, so much so that I have nothing really to add, other than I wish you the best of luck.
It's great that you can see a problem - I think many people don't realise they can't talk about money until they're at crisis point. If you can build on your joint review at the weekend, it can only be a positive thing. I would also agree with the opinion that your OH may need to address some wider issues - there's an old proverb that says 'When money talks, the truth stays silent', and there's a lot of truth in it. Counselling may not be a bad idea - do you plan on doing any pre-marriage courses?
Perhaps at the weekend, when you're having your review, you could also have a chat about how both of you see the marriage unfolding - what difference will it make to a nine-year relationship, how will it change things, how do you see your lives in five years time, how does she see your lives in five years time, what steps do you both need to take to get there (kids, new house, jobs etc)...
Why not merge the weekend's review into a projection for the next five years - complete with suggested figures - it may help your OH to cast an eye on the bigger picture?
Good luck, keep posting!

neverdespairgirl

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

To her defence (again, blinded by love as I am) it is only on the money issue she does this, anything else we're fine (the odd disagreement here and there but nothing major)

The way it looks to me, though, is that having trouble working together on money is a big issue. Especially as you say you both want kids - there is less money around then and more you have to spend it on!

I think counselling for this is a great idea for you both.

floss2

fc123 wrote: »

As far as I am aware, married couples are seen as one financial entity....someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

I had always understood this was only if you had joint bank, loan or credit accounts / joint mortgage or rent / joint names on bills etc as it is financial association that is the factor, not whether married or not.

belfastgirl23

HI ftb, sounds like you have scored a major success in agreeing to sit down and do a financial review so well done!! I think the important thing is to keep the same tone - what are OUR plans, what are WE going to do about this, when do WE want to have kids etc...and encourage her to come to the conclusions herself rather than presenting them to her. Also don't push on the actions flowing from the conclusions, it might take her a little while to come around to this so if you do get to a point where she agrees the conclusion is that you (jointly) need to sort out the debt I'd view that as a major success for this session. Unless she definitely wants to go ahead and discuss it more I'd suggest setting a time to talk about it again and you will both think in the meantime about the best plan of attack. This way if she begins to get upset you can say to her very calmly that you are both sitting down and talking about this because you both agreed it was the best thing and try to get her to think about why she is upset in this case. I'd also really encourage her to think about her own solutions rather than presenting her with any (unless asked). I think her LBM will need to be about why she is spending rather than just about the level of debt etc. It also would do absolutely no harm at all to assure her that you love her and will continue to do so whatever comes out during these conversations...might free her up to be honest. Say it as many times as you need to

And lots of luck with it, you're obviously getting somewhere!

Firsttimebuyer_4

Thought I would update this post...

We had our sitdown and altough she was not comfortable doing it we spend 4 hours (with a couple of bottles of wine!!) making a spreadsheet of all her outgoings the last year (she keeps all statements luckily).

At the end of it i asked what she could live without and she replied that there was not a lot to be cut out.

Her spending is now down to almost nothing. The reason for that is that she has no credit left on her cards, one of them was witheld by the cash point a couple of days after our conversation. I left it..said nothing and then a week ago she came to me and said that something had to be done. At the moment her outgoings are more than her income after we have paid rent, bills, food AND the minimum payments on her cards and loans....which means she has NOTHING to use for a bit of fun at the weekends.

I offered her a couple of solutions.. 1 was to speak to her parents. But she refused that as she wants to sort it out herself. The other option was an IVA or a DMP.

We filled in the forms on the CCCS website and it offered IVA or DMP as a solution. In the end we think DMP is the best option as it looks slightly better on the credit report and also she will be paying the debts off in full. She would like to take responsibility of her own spending spree. Apparently we are more likely to get a mortgage with a DMP than an IVA (before you guys jump and shout "Don't get a mortgage". ..we're not getting a mortgage for a few years yet....) If DMP is accepted it will take around 8 years. But as she gets paid more in her job that can easily be cut down.If it's not accepted then there's always the IVA option... She HAS the money to repay it, only it will take longer and requires interest to be reduced/freezed and loan term to be lengthened.

We just clicked "submit" on the CCCS website and apparently a pack is on its way.

Does anyone know how long it takes for this pack to arrive? Also, her payments on all cards and loans are actually complety up to date with only 2 defaults 3 and 6 months ago. Problem is that she has been using borrowed money to pay off creditors and this is not sustainable anymore. Will the creditors want her to default a few months before they consider a DMP?

She's scared of the creditors coming on the door asking for money......that's the last thing we want.

Not sure what happens next but I do hope the creditors accept the DMP!!

I'll keep updating this as it happens.

SarahNeedle1872

Just found thi sthread and read from the beginning and watned to say well done for the progress u have made with ur OH - u may not have got very far yet.... but this is obviously a HUGE step for her! Well done for not giving in, or giving her money.

Hope everything works out well for u both

Sarah x

affordmylife

Hi

Dont have time to read the whole thread at the moment but will come back tomorrow and catch up.

I know you wish to financially distance yourself from your wife to be but once she is your wife do you debts not become a joint responsibility.

As someone else pointed out if she becomes out of work for whatever reason and cannot make her payments/indulge her rediculous shopping habit then who will. Can a wife go bancrupt. And then continue as before but with husbands money instead?

Some serious questions need to be looked at here.

Each person is responsible for there own spending habits and it seems like you are dealing with yours but she prefers to pretend she is behaving normally.

My very first thought when reading your long post was 'she is a spoilt brat'.

Sorry - no offence meant.