2 problems, financial association and money spending OH!

BrickingIt

jaapie wrote: »

Have not given advice before although being heavily in debt and a spendthrift you must sit down with your OH and have a totally honest conversation about this. How would you cope if you started a family with that amount of debt, plus she is in denial and talking to her could help her.

There is no point saying "dump her" you obviously love her but sometimes you have to stop protecting the people you love for their own sake. You must admit you did not portray her in a great light in your initial post and that is maybe why some people are being harsh if you were honest with yourself are you starting to resent her attitude a little bit?

Exactly, and if she goes off on one, dump her.

and if you think my comments are harsh, wait till a debt laden marriage, with communications problems;) .

belfastgirl23

How about asking her to come to counselling pre-marriage? You obviously have very different attitudes to money and spending and this is a classic problem that can tear couples apart. I suspect this kind of spending is masking some bigger issues for your OH and dealing with this calmly in a supported environment would be a good thing. But I think you need to go to it in the spirit of compromise and working together rather than thinking that you're right I say that even though I do think you're right

I'd never say ditch her, you're obviously mad about her, but I do think this sort of problem puts marriages under huge strain. Best to sort it out now before there are kids to worry about as well...

floss2

As MSE Martin says: "Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps"

BrickingIt - There are polite & tactful ways of saying things - and I don't think you have quite grasped the concept yet.

Firstimebuyer - communication seems to be the root of the problem, and as others have said, this can lead to relationship problems. Maybe you & your OH should consider using some of the wedding gift monies to clear the debts before you start a family - after all, if you hadn't been saving for the wedding, you would be able to pay some off now.

MissEyre

belfastgirl23 wrote: »

How about asking her to come to counselling pre-marriage? You obviously have very different attitudes to money and spending and this is a classic problem that can tear couples apart. I suspect this kind of spending is masking some bigger issues for your OH and dealing with this calmly in a supported environment would be a good thing. But I think you need to go to it in the spirit of compromise and working together rather than thinking that you're right

This is a great idea-money is a a major cause of arguments, and I think it would be a good idea to discuss it together in a calm environment, with someone there who won't be taking sides. How would you feel about this? Relate are amazing, and you would only be asked to pay what you could afford.

Congratulations on deciding to take control of your finances-as others have said, you cannot 'make' your girlfriend have her light bulb moment, so will just have to be there for her when (if) she does. What you do need to discuss are the practical things-that you are not prepared to repay her debts, even once you are married, what will happen if/when you have children etc, and a counseller can help you do this. It might also wake your girlfriend up to the fact that this is a big deal, as it doens't sound like she is even taking your concerns seriously.

I am sorry you have had some unsupportive comments in reponse to your original post-we're not all like that, please just ignore them and keep posting :rolleyes:

ZTD

You're probably not going to want to hear this. Oh well...

Sorry to take stuff out of order and from other posts, but things are a little jumbled at the mo.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

Excuses can be:

1. I've suggested she drives when she goes out with her mates in the weekends and only drinks once in a while. Answer: "So you, don't want me to have fun with my mates...? I'm not going to stop it" And then gets upset....

2. I've suggested getting rid of SKY as she only watches one channel. Answer: "But I love that channel (paramount) and when there is nothing else on I can always switch to Paramount". Then she gets really upset and angry and it's uncomfortable to continue.

3. Buy unbranded stuff. Answer: "I've tried "shopsnamehere"'s washing up liquid/washing powder etc....it doesn't work"..Then she gets upset and it gets uncomfortable.

4. Don't buy so much clothes!!! Her answer: "I don't have any trousers that fit...or shoes...I HAVE to have new shoes"...then she gets REALLY REALLY upset and walks out.

5. Cancel the gym membership. She hardly uses it but when confronted with this she said: "I WILL go more often once (insert any old excuse here). If I don't have it I can't go can i???" So I suggested using a cheaper one (£30 cheaper per month) Answer: "15 minutes further away by car. The one you want me to go to is soo far away and I'll never use it then." And then....she gets upset..

and so on...

So this is a long-winded way of saying your relationship is built upon the loving and secure foundations of emotional blackmail. Is that right? Are you comfortable with spending the rest of your life with someone who will get upset, make things uncomfortable and will storm out upon mention of anything she doesn't like?

Or do you think that a few hours in a white dress is going to change her attitude in those respects?

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

The problem is that my other half is a moneydraining machine...She doesn't drain me for money but she drains herself.

What are you going to do when she asks for money? Especially now that she knows if she gets upset, you will comply. If she threatens divorce will you comply?

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

First things first...my other half i completly aware of my finance problems and I of hers...we are very open about it.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

She has no discipline and has run herself into the ground financially by spending more and more every month.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

Whenever I read the moneysavingexper website and she sees me doing it she says..."God. don't start talking about money again......"

So, she doesn't really know what's going on with her own finances, but has managed to share it completely with you. She hates talking about money, but has managed to share it completely with you.

I think I need some more encouragement to start thinking that is likely.

In respect to putting off the wedding:

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

Not sure that would go down too well and we've already paid deposits, sent out invitations so it's beyond the point of no return.

So you think that having the wedding (spending deposit + balance), going through your emotionally blackmailed marriage, and then having a divorce is going to be easier and cheaper than possibly calling it off and losing your deposit?

I'm not sure I follow that.

MissKJ wrote: »

Refuse marriage?? Love is bigger than a credit card bill!!!

Love is communication, in what is often viewed by other people as "in excess". The OP doesn't have communication.

When you can talk about stuff without her going off on one, then you will have the foundations to build upon. Right now, you are headed into a world of hurt. Maybe, just maybe, after this world of hurt she will grow up and stop pulling the temper tantrum trick - but that's your gamble.

Roll the dice, take your chance.

Your debts (yes - both of you) are a minor issue in comparison to this.

Firsttimebuyer_4

ZTD......When I initially read your post I thought "what the......how dare you"...Then I read it again....and another time juts for good measure. as much as I hate to say it you are probably right..

Perhaps I am blinded by love! Reading it again with you highlighting certain words has given me a different perspective. You mentioned she gets upse alot and about emotional blackmail. To her defence (again, blinded by love as I am) it is only on the money issue she does this, anything else we're fine (the odd disagreement here and there but nothing major)

I honestly don't believe a "divorce" is the right thing to do. We've been together for just over almost 9 years and of those we have lived together for 7 and they have been good ones. The money problems started to become a discussion point in the last 1 1/2 years or so. As for the wedding costing us our savings, we will actually get more money back in gifts than we have spent....I know this already for sure.

Perhaps I did not explain it good enough. She does know she has a money problem and I've gone through her finances before suggesting things to remove or exchange for other similar products. That is when I get the replies I mentioned. So she WANTS to cut down on spending, but when something is suggested she CANT cut it out for various reasons which all are rather silly. She thoroughly believe that what she spends is on things she can't live without. It is like a mental block somewhere.

I'm going to sit down with her one day and go through her and our finances again...and try reasoning with her and bring up marriage/kids etc......The one thing she wants in life is children.......so that might open her eyes!

Thanks for your replies. I will keep you posted!

belfastgirl23

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

She does know she has a money problem and I've gone through her finances before suggesting things to remove or exchange for other similar products. That is when I get the replies I mentioned. So she WANTS to cut down on spending, but when something is suggested she CANT cut it out for various reasons which all are rather silly. She thoroughly believe that what she spends is on things she can't live without. It is like a mental block somewhere.

You see I think your OH is one of those people who you can't make suggestions to or at least not on this. My own DH is much the same - so what I do is outline a situation and let it settle, then come back to it and give three options. I try to make sure that he'll hate 2 of them so that the third one (my preferred choice ) is the one he chooses. I know this sounds horribly manipulative but if confronted with only one obvious choice he'll somehow feel there's a better option out there that I haven't thought of. Or feel railroaded into it. He feels a lot better if the choice is his.

I suspect somehow this is all about control and that she resents you muscling in on her finances. Not because you are at all controlling but because this means something more to her (I think you're right to look towards her parents for this). In your shoes I'd just talk occasionally about things you won't be able to do jointly because of money - eg like have kids or buy a house or whatever. You can lead a horse to water and all that I think the more you push her about it the worse it's going to get.

Good luck anyway

ZTD

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

ZTD......When I initially read your post I thought "what the......how dare you"...Then I read it again....and another time juts for good measure. as much as I hate to say it you are probably right..

Perhaps I am blinded by love! Reading it again with you highlighting certain words has given me a different perspective. You mentioned she gets upse alot and about emotional blackmail. To her defence (again, blinded by love as I am) it is only on the money issue she does this, anything else we're fine (the odd disagreement here and there but nothing major)

My problem is not with you two disagreeing. My problem is with how she reacts to it. Now from above, it sounds like you're hovering between the "she only pulls the blackmail stunt when we disagree about money, when we have major disagreements about other things, then she's reasonable" and "she pulls the blackmail stunt when we disagree and we only disagree about money". Which one is it?

Have you considered it's a remenant of a teenage tantrum from disagreements about money with her parents?

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

I honestly don't believe a "divorce" is the right thing to do. We've been together for just over almost 9 years and of those we have lived together for 7 and they have been good ones. The money problems started to become a discussion point in the last 1 1/2 years or so. As for the wedding costing us our savings, we will actually get more money back in gifts than we have spent....I know this already for sure.

Don't think of it in pure financial terms. Misery is not worth money. If you're going to get married, you need to be pretty damn sure it's going to be forever. Women - they're for life, not just for Christmas.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

Perhaps I did not explain it good enough. She does know she has a money problem

A lightbulb moment is not realising you're in debt. It's often not realising you have to do something about it. It actually is *doing* something about it that a lightbulb moment. Doing something about it is hard, and needs persistance, which is why people on here talk about "having *another* lightbulb moment". Because swimming against debt is hard, and drowning is so much easier.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

and I've gone through her finances before suggesting things to remove or exchange for other similar products. That is when I get the replies I mentioned. So she WANTS to cut down on spending, but when something is suggested she CANT cut it out for various reasons which all are rather silly.

Because they're not reasons - they're excuses. She is in denial. It (usually) takes a crisis to get people out of denial, whether its a card refused at Sainsbury's, or a bailiff at the door or whatever.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

She thoroughly believe that what she spends is on things she can't live without. It is like a mental block somewhere.

To change her life in even the tiniest aspect is an admission that there is a problem, and things aren't as perfect as she thinks they are.

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

I'm going to sit down with her one day and go through her and our finances again...and try reasoning with her and bring up marriage/kids etc......The one thing she wants in life is children.......so that might open her eyes!

My hunch is, that it'll take a crisis.

RAS

Firsttimebuyer wrote: »

I'm going to sit down with her one day and go through her and our finances again...and try reasoning with her and bring up marriage/kids etc......The one thing she wants in life is children.......so that might open her eyes!

At the moment the thing that you both need to avoid is children. I may get all sorts flung at me, but many many people come on here in a really serious mess because they could just about afford it all until the maternity leave and child care costs wrecked their finely balanced stack of debts.

As a woman, can I just remind you that accidents do happen, but that sometimes accidents happen because of an unconcious desire and sometimes because having a child is a major form of emotional blackmail. You need to sort this out before you get married.

I would recommend that you agree that you will both live of your income alone and use hers to pay off your joint debts. Once the debts are sorted, you can save her income against when you have kids. Not my idea but one from an OP on here.

Firsttimebuyer_4

Perhaps I am blinded by love! Reading it again with you highlighting certain words has given me a different perspective. You mentioned she gets upse alot and about emotional blackmail. To her defence (again, blinded by love as I am) it is only on the money issue she does this, anything else we're fine (the odd disagreement here and there but nothing major)

Now from above, it sounds like you're hovering between the "she only pulls the blackmail stunt when we disagree about money, when we have major disagreements about other things, then she's reasonable" and "she pulls the blackmail stunt when we disagree and we only disagree about money". Which one is it?

I think you misread it. We don't have any major disagreements (I wrote, the odd disagreement, but nothing major)

At the moment the thing that you both need to avoid is children. I may get all sorts flung at me, but many many people come on here in a really serious mess because they could just about afford it all until the maternity leave and child care costs wrecked their finely balanced stack of debts.

Babies are out of the question until we've got control....she knows that I mean business on that one.....

I would recommend that you agree that you will both live of your income alone and use hers to pay off your joint debts. Once the debts are sorted, you can save her income against when you have kids. Not my idea but one from an OP on here.

We have no joint debts...only our own personal debts. The joint finances we have is the wedding savings and an account for bills and food.