Meter readings

Gerry1

A few hints and tips.

• It's very easy to see what the peak and off peak hours are.  Late at night every 20 minutes or so look at the where the meter's Low/Normal arrow is pointing to see whether it's flipped.  You can then narrow it down over the next night or two by checking more frequently.  Once you know the exact changeover time, check seven hours later to confirm that's when it flips back; some regions have a two-hour gap in the middle of the night charged at peak rate so it would flip back nine hours later, but that's unlikely to apply in your case.  If you have a rotary mechanical timeswitch that will also give you an idea.
  
  
• As Scot_39 says, the Estimated Annual Consumption figure may be way out.  Just find two bills a year apart that don't have any estimated readings and do the sums to get the exact kWh amounts.  Remember that bills show the kWh rates and Standing Charges without 5% VAT (it's added on at the end) whereas comparison sites include them.
  
  
• If you've been with the same supplier for 14 years you've almost certainly paid too much.  That's water under the bridge but it may be worth switching now, perhaps to a Which? recommended provider.  For single rate the Standard Variable Tariff costs much the same from all suppliers, but that's not the case for E7 where the spread varies considerably (the cheaper the night rate the dearer the day rate will be).  Put your kWh figures into a few comparison sites, but beware exit fees and remember that the crazy political situation makes future energy prices even harder to predict so it's always a gamble.  Many sites default to showing only the more expensive providers that pay them commission, so make sure you click on the 'Show Whole of the Market' button (which may be well hidden).

QuantumCactus42

Gerry1 said:

A few hints and tips.

• It's very easy to see what the peak and off peak hours are.  Late at night every 20 minutes or so look at the where the meter's Low/Normal arrow is pointing to see whether it's flipped.  You can then narrow it down over the next night or two by checking more frequently.  Once you know the exact changeover time, check seven hours later to confirm that's when it flips back; some regions have a two-hour gap in the middle of the night charged at peak rate so it would flip back nine hours later, but that's unlikely to apply in your case.  If you have a rotary mechanical timeswitch that will also give you an idea.
  
  
• As Scot_39 says, the Estimated Annual Consumption figure may be way out.  Just find two bills a year apart that don't have any estimated readings and do the sums to get the exact kWh amounts.  Remember that bills show the kWh rates and Standing Charges without 5% VAT (it's added on at the end) whereas comparison sites include them.
  
  
• If you've been with the same supplier for 14 years you've almost certainly paid too much.  That's water under the bridge but it may be worth switching now, perhaps to a Which? recommended provider.  For single rate the Standard Variable Tariff costs much the same from all suppliers, but that's not the case for E7 where the spread varies considerably (the cheaper the night rate the dearer the day rate will be).  Put your kWh figures into a few comparison sites, but beware exit fees and remember that the crazy political situation makes future energy prices even harder to predict so it's always a gamble.  Many sites default to showing only the more expensive providers that pay them commission, so make sure you click on the 'Show Whole of the Market' button (which may be well hidden).

Interesting tip. I have not noticed the arrow till you pointed it out. I will check tonight at mignight if it flips. 

Ive found last years Decembers bill and subtracted last Decembers bills meter readings. Came out to a difference of 4177kwh so thats how much we spent right? This is pretty close to those estimates.

Ive been looking at different providers and from what ive seen, there would be a saving of around £9 per month which would be good but my parents are a bit scared with the whole thing about inputting figures the wrong way.

Gerry1

This video shows your type of meter with the arrow pointing to the Day/Normal/Peak rate register so that's the one that would be incrementing.

When you're giving readings, I trust you're ignoring the digits with red outlines?  If not, the reading will be ten times the correct amount.  Ofgem's typical value for an all-electric property with low use is 2200kWh per year so a value of only 417kWh would be really low.  However, if you're not using any room heating at all perhaps it might just be possible.

What's next to it?  A mechanical timer like this, or a Radio TeleSwitch (RTS) like this?

Try the Meter Sanity Test.  200 revolutions of the disk equals 1kWh, so if absolutely everything except a 3kW electric kettle is switched off you'd expect to count about ten revolutions in one minute.  With the whole flat switched off the disk should remain stuck where exactly where it was.

Gerry1

QuantumCactus42 said:

Gerry1 said:

A few hints and tips.

• It's very easy to see what the peak and off peak hours are.  Late at night every 20 minutes or so look at the where the meter's Low/Normal arrow is pointing to see whether it's flipped.  You can then narrow it down over the next night or two by checking more frequently.  Once you know the exact changeover time, check seven hours later to confirm that's when it flips back; some regions have a two-hour gap in the middle of the night charged at peak rate so it would flip back nine hours later, but that's unlikely to apply in your case.  If you have a rotary mechanical timeswitch that will also give you an idea.
  
  
• As Scot_39 says, the Estimated Annual Consumption figure may be way out.  Just find two bills a year apart that don't have any estimated readings and do the sums to get the exact kWh amounts.  Remember that bills show the kWh rates and Standing Charges without 5% VAT (it's added on at the end) whereas comparison sites include them.
  
  
• If you've been with the same supplier for 14 years you've almost certainly paid too much.  That's water under the bridge but it may be worth switching now, perhaps to a Which? recommended provider.  For single rate the Standard Variable Tariff costs much the same from all suppliers, but that's not the case for E7 where the spread varies considerably (the cheaper the night rate the dearer the day rate will be).  Put your kWh figures into a few comparison sites, but beware exit fees and remember that the crazy political situation makes future energy prices even harder to predict so it's always a gamble.  Many sites default to showing only the more expensive providers that pay them commission, so make sure you click on the 'Show Whole of the Market' button (which may be well hidden).

Ive found last years Decembers bill and subtracted last Decembers bills meter readings. Came out to a difference of 4177kwh so thats how much we spent right? This is pretty close to those estimates.

If they're from December 2024 and December 2023 bills and they're both Customer or Actual (=Meter Reader) readings rather than Estimated and they add up to 4177kWh then that would be correct.  But see the bit above about the figure outlined in red.

QuantumCactus42

Gerry1 said:

This video shows your type of meter with the arrow pointing to the Day/Normal/Peak rate register so that's the one that would be incrementing.

When you're giving readings, I trust you're ignoring the digits with red outlines?  If not, the reading will be ten times the correct amount.  Ofgem's typical value for an all-electric property with low use is 2200kWh per year so a value of only 417kWh would be really low.  However, if you're not using any room heating at all perhaps it might just be possible.

What's next to it?  A mechanical timer like this, or a Radio TeleSwitch (RTS) like this?

Try the Meter Sanity Test.  200 revolutions of the disk equals 1kWh, so if absolutely everything except a 3kW electric kettle is switched off you'd expect to count about ten revolutions in one minute.  With the whole flat switched off the disk should remain stuck where exactly where it was.

So Ive never submitted the readings, my parents do that. Ive just checked the app submitted readings vs the meter and they have indeed ignored the red number. They used to submit the readings over the phone until like last year or the year before (could be wrong but thats what i remember) where theyve switched to putting them in the app.

Next to the meter is the Radio Teleswitch.

I have read the previously linked tutorial for the meter sanity but cant get my head around it. There are a lot of terms that I cant associate to real life items. Ive also searched on youtube for a video showing it but cannot find anything. Do you know of any videos that show the test?

Also Ive now had the water heater thingy turned off now for over a day (well i think its turned off (the off peak light is off and I flicked the switch that said water heater off)). There has been no issues with hot water. Have washed the dishes twice now, washing hands, brushing teeth etc and still have hot water. When i go into the boiler room thing, its still quite warm in there like it usually was when it was on. Which makes me question whether its actually turned off?

I took a picture of the meter last night at 21:30 which read 66076 (2 red number) and 41514 (0 red number). I took another picture of the meter today at 21:30 which read 66082 (3 red number) and 41514 (6 red number)

Since then, its only been me and mum at home. Usage that I can think of (excluding water tank heater) is as follows:
- oven on for 2 hours
- 2 showers
- laptop charged around 3-4 times per day (battery very old)
- 2 light bulbs on for around 1 hour total
- PC use for 1 hour at night
- 2 phones charged
- Hair dryer for around 10 mins 

Does that sound roughly correct? Or do you think the water heater thing is still on?

Gerry1

No video available, I devised my Meter Sanity Test as a simple procedure that needs no special equipment to help non-technical people who believe their bills are excessive because their meter must be faulty.  Usually the meters are found to be within tolerance and they are then hit with a very expensive and unwelcome testing fee that adds to their woes.

New builds often have only plot numbers at the start and these don't always end up matching up with the postal addresses on the national database.  The mix-up usually occurs when the meters are in a shared cupboard or meter room.  By identifying the meter that always flashes or spins crazily when you turn everything on and stops completely when you turn everything off means that you can be absolutely certain that your meter is really serving your property rather than a neighbour's.

Having watched the meter flashing or spinning, it's then a simple matter to gain further reassurance by a rough and ready test of its measuring accuracy.  The test isn't fully accurate because a 3kW kettle isn't a precision measuring instrument, it might be 2.9kW or 3.1kW, and that will only be true at one specified voltage.  Your voltage is probably close to 240V in reality, but for European harmonisation its specification was was fudged to be 230V +10% -6% so ithat we didn't have to change from 240V.  Therefore it's legally allowed to vary from 216.2 V up to 253V.

If anyone finds that their meter still increments when everything is switched off at the consumer unit, or if the Meter Sanity Test suggests that it's recording far more kWh than it should, then you can be a bit more confident that arranging an official test may be worthwhile.

Feel free to ask about anything you don't fully understand.

Gerry1

QuantumCactus42 said:

Gerry1 said:

This video shows your type of meter with the arrow pointing to the Day/Normal/Peak rate register so that's the one that would be incrementing.

When you're giving readings, I trust you're ignoring the digits with red outlines?  If not, the reading will be ten times the correct amount.  Ofgem's typical value for an all-electric property with low use is 2200kWh per year so a value of only 417kWh would be really low.  However, if you're not using any room heating at all perhaps it might just be possible.

What's next to it?  A mechanical timer like this, or a Radio TeleSwitch (RTS) like this?

Try the Meter Sanity Test.  200 revolutions of the disk equals 1kWh, so if absolutely everything except a 3kW electric kettle is switched off you'd expect to count about ten revolutions in one minute.  With the whole flat switched off the disk should remain stuck where exactly where it was.

I took a picture of the meter last night at 21:30 which read 66076 (2 red number) and 41514 (0 red number). I took another picture of the meter today at 21:30 which read 66082 (3 red number) and 41514 (6 red number)

Since then, its only been me and mum at home. Usage that I can think of (excluding water tank heater) is as follows:
- oven on for 2 hours
- 2 showers
- laptop charged around 3-4 times per day (battery very old)
- 2 light bulbs on for around 1 hour total
- PC use for 1 hour at night
- 2 phones charged
- Hair dryer for around 10 mins 

Does that sound roughly correct? Or do you think the water heater thing is still on?

Measured usage 6.7kWh

Rough guesstimates

• Oven: 3kW with a 70% duty cycle for 2 hours: 3 x 0.70 x 2 = 4.2kWh
• 2 showers for 5 minutes each using a 10kW instant electric shower: 2 x 5/60  = 1.67kWh
• 2 LED 100W equivalent bulbs each for 1 hour: 2 x 1hr x 12.5W = 25Wh = 0.025kWh
• PC use for 1 hour at night: 90W x 1hr = 90Wh = 0.09kWh
• 2 phones charged: 2 x 5W x 3hr = 30Wh = 0.03kWh
• Hair dryer for around 10 mins: 2200W x 10/60 = 0.367kWh

That adds up to 6.382kWh so your measured amount sof 6.7kWh seems entirely reasonable.  However, if your usage was the same every day for a year it would be 2329kWh which is close to Ofgem's Low Usage figure of 2200kWh.  Your billed amount of 4177kWh is 79% higher, so some further investigation is needed.

If you leave the water heater off it should get cooler in a day or two.  As the timer is faulty it may have been bypassed so it's on 24h.

Scot_39

Even a fairly modern HW immersion tank will lose 1-2 kWh/day - thats static - not pipe losses when in use.

I'd be amazed if any home with electric hot water / shower etc would be using anywhere near 500 kWh a year.  So don't see it being a scaling error.

QuantumCactus42 said:
...
I took a picture of the meter last night at 21:30 which read 66076 (2 red number) and 41514 (0 red number). I took another picture of the meter today at 21:30 which read 66082 (3 red number) and 41514 (6 red number)

Since then, its only been me and mum at home. Usage that I can think of (excluding water tank heater) is as follows:
- oven on for 2 hours  - say 1.5 - 2.5 kWh  (higher end if if 2x 1 hr for separate meals, as reheating the oven mass a big part of the energy required, not 1x2 hr)
- 2 showers - say 2-3 kWh (did I miss answer - but if tank fed that comes from yesterdays use of tank heater not todays metered energy use)
- laptop charged around 3-4 times per day (battery very old)  (maybe 0.2-0.4kWh - my laptop adaptor 65W - older ones more)
- 2 light bulbs on for around 1 hour total (- in winter really ? if Led - 0.02 kWh)
- PC use for 1 hour at night (if desktop at 100W, 0.1kWh if 350W like when I heavily load my i7 + graphics - 0.35kWh - if laptop - maybe 0.05kWh)
- 2 phones charged (at modern but not latest 15W for 2 hrs each - 0.06kWh)
- Hair dryer for around 10 mins (many c2-2.4kW at top end - if 2.2kW - 0.35kWh)

Does that sound roughly correct? Or do you think the water heater thing is still on?

So that will be 6.1 kWh day (66082.3-66076.2) and 0.6kWh night - give or take +/-0.1 kWh.

The 0.6 over 7 hrs or so - easily believable given your c100W background use - a lot of that likely to be Fridge and Freezer with the immersion heater off.

6.7 kWh

As well as above list - you said had Fridge / Freezer - plus anyone drink tea / coffee a few times in morning / night?

Boil a kettle for tea / coffee for 3 mins - 3kW*3/60 = 0.05 kWh

Fridge maybe 0.25-0.4 kWh per day (more if older models)

Freezer maybe 0.5 kWh (undercounter / small) - 0.7 kWh modern tall - 1kWh + potentially if older) - per day.

Without showers I get to 4 kWh easily for efficient appliances - more for older - and with 2 showers - that 6.7 kWh easily.

Did I miss the answer to how your shower is het - electric or tank fed ?

[If electric 2 showers easily adds 2-3kWh - but if tank fed - that HW energy was added by electricity heater yesterday - and not replenished today unless heater element is on at least part time.]

I am surprised it's that high without any HW at all - but with 2 electric showers - easy - or reheating the water in the tank - easy. Without seondary loads - some weekend laundry days I do 2-3 washes - 2-3kWh - and run a dehumidifier to keep home dry in winter (0.5kWh for 2 days)

Some users reported they only heat their tank every 2nd or even every 3rd day - one iirc was despite 2-3 quick showers - fed from HW tank - per day - they don't get really cold at the top - that quickly.  Fixing the timer will only reduce the losses a bit - it wont stop your costs of heating the tank back up when hot replaced by cold.

QrizB

QuantumCactus42 said:

Next to the meter is the Radio Teleswitch.

If you have a radio teleswitch, you'll probably be asked to swap the meter for a smart meter. This should help with a lot of your queries as you'll be able to see exactly when you're using your electricity.

QuantumCactus42

Gerry1 said:

QuantumCactus42 said:

Gerry1 said:

This video shows your type of meter with the arrow pointing to the Day/Normal/Peak rate register so that's the one that would be incrementing.

When you're giving readings, I trust you're ignoring the digits with red outlines?  If not, the reading will be ten times the correct amount.  Ofgem's typical value for an all-electric property with low use is 2200kWh per year so a value of only 417kWh would be really low.  However, if you're not using any room heating at all perhaps it might just be possible.

What's next to it?  A mechanical timer like this, or a Radio TeleSwitch (RTS) like this?

Try the Meter Sanity Test.  200 revolutions of the disk equals 1kWh, so if absolutely everything except a 3kW electric kettle is switched off you'd expect to count about ten revolutions in one minute.  With the whole flat switched off the disk should remain stuck where exactly where it was.

I took a picture of the meter last night at 21:30 which read 66076 (2 red number) and 41514 (0 red number). I took another picture of the meter today at 21:30 which read 66082 (3 red number) and 41514 (6 red number)

Since then, its only been me and mum at home. Usage that I can think of (excluding water tank heater) is as follows:
- oven on for 2 hours
- 2 showers
- laptop charged around 3-4 times per day (battery very old)
- 2 light bulbs on for around 1 hour total
- PC use for 1 hour at night
- 2 phones charged
- Hair dryer for around 10 mins 

Does that sound roughly correct? Or do you think the water heater thing is still on?

Measured usage 6.7kWh

Rough guesstimates

• Oven: 3kW with a 70% duty cycle for 2 hours: 3 x 0.70 x 2 = 4.2kWh
• 2 showers for 5 minutes each using a 10kW instant electric shower: 2 x 5/60  = 1.67kWh
• 2 LED 100W equivalent bulbs each for 1 hour: 2 x 1hr x 12.5W = 25Wh = 0.025kWh
• PC use for 1 hour at night: 90W x 1hr = 90Wh = 0.09kWh
• 2 phones charged: 2 x 5W x 3hr = 30Wh = 0.03kWh
• Hair dryer for around 10 mins: 2200W x 10/60 = 0.367kWh

That adds up to 6.382kWh so your measured amount sof 6.7kWh seems entirely reasonable.  However, if your usage was the same every day for a year it would be 2329kWh which is close to Ofgem's Low Usage figure of 2200kWh.  Your billed amount of 4177kWh is 79% higher, so some further investigation is needed.

If you leave the water heater off it should get cooler in a day or two.  As the timer is faulty it may have been bypassed so it's on 24h.

Hopefully having the water heater off for half the week can get us down to the Ofgem low usage numbers! Ill keep an eye out on what were using throughtout the day for the next few weeks to see if theres any fluctuations.