Meter readings

Scot_39

QuantumCactus42 said:

EssexHebridean said:

So as the OP is too new to the forums to allow posting of photos into threads they have very sensibly DM’d me a photo of the immersion heater timer - 

@QuantumCactus42 the first question here for me is what time was that picture taken? If it was taken directly before you DM’d it to me last night, then there is a good chance that the timing is out on it which could be causing the water to heat on peak rates - not ideal. Do you know exactly when the off peak rate begins and ends? 

Second question I guess is do you understand exactly how this timer works? If not, ask and we can explain it! 

This picture was taken at 9:05am 2 days ago. I literally have 0 idea what any of those dials mean. Ive tried to make sense of it but cant. Im also not too sure when the off peak begins and ends. Ive read online that its potential between midnight and 8am but i could be wrong. Im very new and clueless to all of these things so feel free to assume that I literally do not know anything about anything as youd probably be correct!

In which case surely the winter time line should have aligned with the current winter GMT time - 9 am - not 19 hrs / 7pm - or 8pm DST - the reason for both lines - you set against one with your other clock / watch etc - depending on season.

And why then is the off peak light on at 9am (if an input detection) or switched on when the timer thinks its 7pm GMT if an output ?

 

Does it ever go off  ?

You'll be using more heat constantly topping up if your immersion is on a long time - but only against tank loses - typically 1-2 kWh a day for a decent factory lagged tank - it doesn't explain 4000kWh pa / 10 kWh per day.

But could be far worse in an old lose "quilt" type tank jacket - one that is badly fitted (we had 2 on my parents in the end)

Oh and the actual timer should be set to select at a subset of times looking at that manual.  So you might want to turn it slowly and look at when it switches / the boost light comes on / off.   The manual suggests it cannot be set outside the black dial timings 1130 to 9am - but it's clearly on in daytime.

I'd get it replaced - given it's age - if in doubt.

QrizB

OP I don't think you've said what sort of electricity meter you have?

Is it an old electromechanical one, a newer electronic one or is it a smart meter?

Do you know how to tell which rate (day or night, high or low) is active at any given time?

QuantumCactus42

QrizB said:

OP I don't think you've said what sort of electricity meter you have?

Is it an old electromechanical one, a newer electronic one or is it a smart meter?

Do you know how to tell which rate (day or night, high or low) is active at any given time?

From what I have seen online, i believe we have an old electromechanical one. I believe its called GEC C11B2-R. I will check tomorrow at a very off peak time like 1pm if the off peak light is always on or not and will report bacl.

QuantumCactus42

Scot_39 said:

QuantumCactus42 said:

EssexHebridean said:

So as the OP is too new to the forums to allow posting of photos into threads they have very sensibly DM’d me a photo of the immersion heater timer - 

@QuantumCactus42 the first question here for me is what time was that picture taken? If it was taken directly before you DM’d it to me last night, then there is a good chance that the timing is out on it which could be causing the water to heat on peak rates - not ideal. Do you know exactly when the off peak rate begins and ends? 

Second question I guess is do you understand exactly how this timer works? If not, ask and we can explain it! 

This picture was taken at 9:05am 2 days ago. I literally have 0 idea what any of those dials mean. Ive tried to make sense of it but cant. Im also not too sure when the off peak begins and ends. Ive read online that its potential between midnight and 8am but i could be wrong. Im very new and clueless to all of these things so feel free to assume that I literally do not know anything about anything as youd probably be correct!

In which case surely the winter time line should have aligned with the current winter GMT time - 9 am - not 19 hrs / 7pm - or 8pm DST - the reason for both lines - you set against one with your other clock / watch etc - depending on season.

And why then is the off peak light on at 9am (if an input detection) or switched on when the timer thinks its 7pm GMT if an output ?

 

Does it ever go off  ?

You'll be using more heat constantly topping up if your immersion is on a long time - but only against tank loses - typically 1-2 kWh a day for a decent factory lagged tank - it doesn't explain 4000kWh pa / 10 kWh per day.

But could be far worse in an old lose "quilt" type tank jacket - one that is badly fitted (we had 2 on my parents in the end)

Oh and the actual timer should be set to select at a subset of times looking at that manual.  So you might want to turn it slowly and look at when it switches / the boost light comes on / off.   The manual suggests it cannot be set outside the black dial timings 1130 to 9am - but it's clearly on in daytime.

I'd get it replaced - given it's age - if in doubt.

Which part would need replacing? The box thing or the whole water tank/heating element?

EssexHebridean

Ok - another thought here for a failsafe check and allowing that checking from the meter itself is not as practical when it’s in a shared meter cupboard - you say that there are storage heaters in the property? If so, can you see, do any of them have a light in the fused switch to turn them on? If one does, then an option to check on when your off peak timings are at least as a rough guess would be to pop one of those heaters on at midnight - see if the light comes on. If not. Check again at 1am, and if still nothing again at 1.30am ish - assuming you are fairly routinely up around that time?  You might want to turn it off again after the check if you don’t generally use them. You could repeat that check 7 hours from the first time you have seen the light appear to see the “off” time as well - although a I’m not aware of a London region having spit timings on E7 it is possible. (So this is when for example someone has off peak from 11pm to 4am, then 5am to 7am). 

I’m guessing that the immersion heater is going to be the culprit here for that high use, for a start. That could particularly apply if it’s been heating during the day rather than overnight meaning that a boost is needed to provide hot water for morning use. 

matelodave

As it only takes around 9kwh to heat 150litres of water, there's really no need to keep the heater switched on for the whole seven off-peak hours.

Three to four hours should be more than enough with a 3kw heater so setting it to be on between 1am and 5 am should be more than adequate to fully heat the tank with worrying about summer/winter times or even straying into peak rate times. However the clock time does need to be set correctly in the first place as @QrizB suggests.

However do make sure that the tank has decent insulation, something like sprayed foam rather than a manky old fibreglass jacket tied on with string. A poorly insulated tank can lose a surprising amount of heat so adding another jacket even to a foamed tank would help retain the heat better.

Scot_39

QuantumCactus42 said:

Scot_39 said:

QuantumCactus42 said:

EssexHebridean said:

So as the OP is too new to the forums to allow posting of photos into threads they have very sensibly DM’d me a photo of the immersion heater timer - 

@QuantumCactus42 the first question here for me is what time was that picture taken? If it was taken directly before you DM’d it to me last night, then there is a good chance that the timing is out on it which could be causing the water to heat on peak rates - not ideal. Do you know exactly when the off peak rate begins and ends? 

Second question I guess is do you understand exactly how this timer works? If not, ask and we can explain it! 

This picture was taken at 9:05am 2 days ago. I literally have 0 idea what any of those dials mean. Ive tried to make sense of it but cant. Im also not too sure when the off peak begins and ends. Ive read online that its potential between midnight and 8am but i could be wrong. Im very new and clueless to all of these things so feel free to assume that I literally do not know anything about anything as youd probably be correct!

In which case surely the winter time line should have aligned with the current winter GMT time - 9 am - not 19 hrs / 7pm - or 8pm DST - the reason for both lines - you set against one with your other clock / watch etc - depending on season.

And why then is the off peak light on at 9am (if an input detection) or switched on when the timer thinks its 7pm GMT if an output ?

 

Does it ever go off  ?

You'll be using more heat constantly topping up if your immersion is on a long time - but only against tank loses - typically 1-2 kWh a day for a decent factory lagged tank - it doesn't explain 4000kWh pa / 10 kWh per day.

But could be far worse in an old lose "quilt" type tank jacket - one that is badly fitted (we had 2 on my parents in the end)

Oh and the actual timer should be set to select at a subset of times looking at that manual.  So you might want to turn it slowly and look at when it switches / the boost light comes on / off.   The manual suggests it cannot be set outside the black dial timings 1130 to 9am - but it's clearly on in daytime.

I'd get it replaced - given it's age - if in doubt.

Which part would need replacing? The box thing or the whole water tank/heating element?

Just the box thing initially my guess.

The maxistore timer switch.  To make sure your getting the best out of your off peak heating rates reliably.

If the tgermostat on the element was bad - you'd probably notice scalding hot water in most smaller to medium tanks after 3-4 hrs heating let alone longer.

The actual switching times are set behind the display -  by screw adjustable switch arms on a time (mechanical rotating wheel arc slot ?) restricted basis.

Those could I suppose have loosened / slipped - but the manual linked above says they cannot be set outside the 1130 to 9am zone - aligning with black section of the time dial on the front.  (You were just by chance on tge limit of that end point in the photo.  But the device itself thought it was 7pm gmt)

And limitted to an overall min 4 hrs on period to max 7 hrs on period a day difference between on and off arms.

But it looks on when your showing approaching 7pm gmt 8pm dst time in your photo at back of 9am the off peak lamp is on. 

So do you know exactly when your immersion is being switched on and off ?

Have you checked the neon indicator at other times of tge day / night.  Simpler yet

If you rotate the dial slowly (clockwise I believe from manual to adjust/set time)  you might actually hear it - or see it via neon - switching as set - record the times shown at the gmt winter line at top of timer for both on and off.

You might be lucky and it's somehow a new false fixed time offset and adjust to suit - but if shifted once - who says it won't again.

 I assume the clock motor is operating with power.  But given the likely age I wouldn't guarantee the battery back up for power outages etc is working and they are susciptible to drift anyways.  So might be an idea to check periodically if in an area prone to outages if you do try the false offset fix.

FreeBear

matelodave said: However do make sure that the tank has decent insulation, something like sprayed foam rather than a manky old fibreglass jacket tied on with string. A poorly insulated tank can lose a surprising amount of heat so adding another jacket even to a foamed tank would help retain the heat better.

And make sure there is a thermostat on the tank that will turn the heater off once the water is up to temperature.

If there is a thermostat on the tank, it is perfectly safe to turn it down to 50-55°C even if you have concerns about legionella - Yes, 60°C will kill the bacteria within minutes, but 50-55°C will also work, it just takes a little longer.

QuantumCactus42

Scot_39 said:

QuantumCactus42 said:

Scot_39 said:

QuantumCactus42 said:

EssexHebridean said:

So as the OP is too new to the forums to allow posting of photos into threads they have very sensibly DM’d me a photo of the immersion heater timer - 

@QuantumCactus42 the first question here for me is what time was that picture taken? If it was taken directly before you DM’d it to me last night, then there is a good chance that the timing is out on it which could be causing the water to heat on peak rates - not ideal. Do you know exactly when the off peak rate begins and ends? 

Second question I guess is do you understand exactly how this timer works? If not, ask and we can explain it! 

This picture was taken at 9:05am 2 days ago. I literally have 0 idea what any of those dials mean. Ive tried to make sense of it but cant. Im also not too sure when the off peak begins and ends. Ive read online that its potential between midnight and 8am but i could be wrong. Im very new and clueless to all of these things so feel free to assume that I literally do not know anything about anything as youd probably be correct!

In which case surely the winter time line should have aligned with the current winter GMT time - 9 am - not 19 hrs / 7pm - or 8pm DST - the reason for both lines - you set against one with your other clock / watch etc - depending on season.

And why then is the off peak light on at 9am (if an input detection) or switched on when the timer thinks its 7pm GMT if an output ?

 

Does it ever go off  ?

You'll be using more heat constantly topping up if your immersion is on a long time - but only against tank loses - typically 1-2 kWh a day for a decent factory lagged tank - it doesn't explain 4000kWh pa / 10 kWh per day.

But could be far worse in an old lose "quilt" type tank jacket - one that is badly fitted (we had 2 on my parents in the end)

Oh and the actual timer should be set to select at a subset of times looking at that manual.  So you might want to turn it slowly and look at when it switches / the boost light comes on / off.   The manual suggests it cannot be set outside the black dial timings 1130 to 9am - but it's clearly on in daytime.

I'd get it replaced - given it's age - if in doubt.

Which part would need replacing? The box thing or the whole water tank/heating element?

Just the box thing initially my guess.

The maxistore timer switch.  To make sure your getting the best out of your off peak heating rates reliably.

If the tgermostat on the element was bad - you'd probably notice scalding hot water in most smaller to medium tanks after 3-4 hrs heating let alone longer.

The actual switching times are set behind the display -  by screw adjustable switch arms on a time (mechanical rotating wheel arc slot ?) restricted basis.

Those could I suppose have loosened / slipped - but the manual linked above says they cannot be set outside the 1130 to 9am zone - aligning with black section of the time dial on the front.  (You were just by chance on tge limit of that end point in the photo.  But the device itself thought it was 7pm gmt)

And limitted to an overall min 4 hrs on period to max 7 hrs on period a day difference between on and off arms.

But it looks on when your showing approaching 7pm gmt 8pm dst time in your photo at back of 9am the off peak lamp is on. 

So do you know exactly when your immersion is being switched on and off ?

Have you checked the neon indicator at other times of tge day / night.  Simpler yet

If you rotate the dial slowly (clockwise I believe from manual to adjust/set time)  you might actually hear it - or see it via neon - switching as set - record the times shown at the gmt winter line at top of timer for both on and off.

You might be lucky and it's somehow a new false fixed time offset and adjust to suit - but if shifted once - who says it won't again.

 I assume the clock motor is operating with power.  But given the likely age I wouldn't guarantee the battery back up for power outages etc is working and they are susciptible to drift anyways.  So might be an idea to check periodically if in an area prone to outages if you do try the false offset fix.

I watched some youtube videos as I cant really follow written instructions well as fiddled around witht the dial thing. I think it is infact broken. From the videos ive watched, the dial is supposed to be a timer which corresponds with the current time. The default setting is supposed to turn on at 3am and off at 8am. However, with ours, the dial does not turn on its own and the off peak light is constantly on. With the functional device in the youtube video, the light comes on when its heating (during the off peak) and goes back off when not heating (after 8am). This leads me to the conclusion that our one is constantly heating as our light is constantly on. Does this make sense or have I gone wrong in my assumptions? If this is the case, is that whats contributing the the 4000kwh per year of usage for such a small flat which aside from this issue, does not use a lot of electricity?

FrugaiMacDugal

EssexHebridean said:

So as the OP is too new to the forums to allow posting of photos into threads they have very sensibly DM’d me a photo of the immersion heater timer - 

As you turn the dial round does the light go off and on, if so at what times?

Try putting the switch to 'off' rather than 'timed' for a day, see if that makes a difference, take meter readings same time each day.