DCB Legal VCS claim

PolePosition2

Just another update.

So I emailed a copy of the DQ to DCBLEGAL in advance of receiving one from CNBC.

In my covering letter I gave them the opportunity for them to phone me if they wanted to come to some kind of mediation seeing that they'd written in their email "without prejudice" that they may be willing to settle out of court and for me to phone them within 7 days and make them an offer.

So I decided to turn the tables on them putting the onus back in their court to negotiate with me if they so wished.

I left it almost a week by which time I  received the official DQ documents from the court in the post so I decided it was now time to send my already completed DQ to the court by email and cc the legals acting for the case.

A day later I gets a call from DCBLegal which puts me in a queue only to be answered by someone who presumed I'd called them.

I said "you called me" 

Having asked who I was and my address they were able to find me in the system and then asked me if I wanted to make a settlement offer to which I said it was for them to come up with a settlement seeing they were the solicitors to the Claimant.

I asked them if this was the official mediation call and they said no it wasn't 

I stated that "without prejudice" I would most probably have paid the PCN if it had been £70 reduced to £35 but seeing that these parking companies have increased the PCN to £100 then out of principle I wasn't prepared to pay the reduced £60 but said if it had been £35 then I may "without prejudice" have just paid for the sake of all the hassle.

The amount they said had now gone up to about £280 to which I replied that even if they were to win in court the judge would only award them £180 - £213 anyway so long as i'd complied with the Civil Procedure 1998 which I have from start to finish.

I said I was disappointed that their client VCS haven't yet discontinued the claim but said they are probably going to the 11th hour on this but made it very clear that I have requested a hearing although they want "heard on the papers"

That was it and the call ended.

So, they didn't even have the courtesy of calling me in person but rather computer generated call only to be answered by someone who hadn't called me and didn't know the case.

Shambolic really and so unprofessional.

PolePosition2

It appears the mediation call is up to 1 hour not 5mins!!!!

Just received a mediation date - "Your appointment will last for around one hour from the point at which the mediator calls."

"You will need to briefly explain your claim or defence to the mediator. You should prepare for yourself a brief summary of the main points."

"You’re attending mediation with a view to settling your case. This means negotiating to overcome disputed issues. The mediator is neutral and helps each party to explore options and discuss risks. Mediation works when you’re willing to listen to what the other party has to say, negotiate and agree a settlement." - bit of a contradiction seeing that "The mediator will call both parties separately – you will not talk directly to the other side."

A bit of a farce really. 

Supposing VCS don't discontinue how long after the mediation call does it usually take to go to a court date? 

and then even at this stage could VCS discontinue at any time even at the 11th hour immediately before the court hearing? or do they normally discontinue well before then?

Lastly, if VCS have requested a hearing "on the papers" and I have requested a court hearing in person instead who ultimately decides ?

Does it usually or more often go in favour of the defendant? 

ChirpyChicken

Less then 5 minutes actually 
Dont over think this
And depending on the court it could be between 6 weeks and 8 months before a hearing 

Coupon-mad

PolePosition2 said:

It appears the mediation call is up to 1 hour not 5mins!!!!

Ummm... no.

Why are you reading the general court Mediation email (which is not specific to parking claims) instead of referring back to the 12 steps? It's your phone call to steer how you want. It's two or three minutes because you'll call it a day and put the phone down if you do what we advise!

Unless you are bored that day & want a bit of fun, and take some time to educate the Mediator that parking claims are generally scams so why are they inflicting this rubbish phone call on victims and supporting meritless claims?

We have found that VCS usually proceed to a hearing. Assume it won't be discontinued.

Do you have photos of the sign and place you stopped? Show us.

How long was the car stopped for and why?

Defendants here win 99% of the time, usually due to poor signage evidence. In your case maybe poor signs and lines and the fact that putting a prohibitive sign up (presumably saying 'No Parking') offers nothing of value to drivers, so there was no contract as a matter of fact and law:

PolePosition2 said:

PolePosition2

My case is a little different as I am fighting them on the wording or lack of it of their terms and conditions which fails to fully comply with The Consumer Contract Regulations 2013 which hasn't been fully tested in court yet.

The legislation either applies to a stop starting scenario or it doesn't.

The Claimant hasn't given evidence that it doesn't apply.

A Barrister on the other hand says otherwise.

Either way I'm prepared to lose but if the government legislation is what it says then the terms and conditions contravene the Regulations and make the contract invalid.

It's a risk they take as it could go either way even though they've not as yet provided anything that would prove otherwise.

I'm fighting them on a technicality 

They've already got their Particulars of claim incorrect by giving the wrong date of the PCN which DCBLegal got wrong as was about a week before I was served it.

So I have a few mitigating circumstances that if one doesn't ride the others might.

Coupon-mad

Up to you but I wouldn't play it that way.

We tried using the 2013 regs in quite a few defences about nine or ten years ago, so it WAS thoroughly tested. No judges were remotely interested. I recall @bargepole saying as much even though I agree with you: those 2013 Consumer regs do apply to parking contracts. I remember that there was even a 'parking' example in the EU blurb or guidance.

However, IMHO your strongest suits are as I said already:

"In your case maybe poor signs and lines and the fact that putting a prohibitive sign up (presumably saying 'No Parking') offers nothing of value to drivers, so there was no contract as a matter of fact and law."

We really need answers to these:

Do you have photos of the sign and place you stopped? Show us.

How long was the car stopped for and why?

Car1980

Yes, there is never a universal "they're all valid or invalid".

Beavis didn't automatically make it an automatic win in court for the parking companies - far from it.

I can't see any specifics about your case. Far easier to fight back on the usual things.

VCS signs are generally a mess for starters. And how is this restricted zone demarcated?

PolePosition2

The T & Cs say no parking in hatched areas. I parked for approx 20 mins in an area that although is not a designated loading bay turns out is used for deliveries. 
The parking company allow lorries to park in the hatched area for loading/unloading even though the t&cs state no stopping/parking in hatched areas and doesn't go onto say except for unloading/unloading.

So they turn a blind eye to some but not others!!! 

I didn't at the time recognise it as an official hatched area as it was not 'Boxed' and its location served no apparent purpose as parking there didn't cause any obstruction and many cars park in this area on a daily basis without being ticketed as the ANPR only picks up the duration of entering and exiting.

The privacy notice which is not a PCN was served by a patrolling vehicle I guess that randomly goes between sites.

The t&cs on entering the car park are obscured by a BIG KFC sign just before you approach to turn into the entrance so you don't notice the sign as you turn into car park having just crossed a signalled carriageway the left turn is almost immediate after coming through the lights.

If the information on the forum is correct then the maximum a judge would order me to pay if I were to lose
is £181-£213 which is less than the £270 presently standing so going to a hearing even if I were to lose would be less if the £181-£213 is correct advice. (assuming you've complied with the process and the Civil Procedure rules etc, which I have from start to finish)

Other factors,

The POC got the date of the PCN wrong as it was a Privacy notice issued not a PCN.

The 24hr telephone line to speak to someone was not 24hr as there business hours finished at 5.30pm so there was no person to speak to.

Excel parking were corresponding although its managed by VCS so potential data breach

The blackbelt barrister AKA Daniel Shensmith of Shensmith Law covered it in his YT channel and although stated it was not legal advice that he was prepared to use these Consumer Contract regulations 2013 in his own personal case with a parking management company if they failed to uphold his appeal.
 and went on to say he would do another video going through the defence and how he would construct his defence using the Regulations.

He ended up not having to do so, which was unfortunate for his viewers due to his further appeal being upheld.

Why have these Regulations and what's their propose if they don't apply or judges don't apply them?

































.

Coupon-mad

Oh dear. Re the Blackbelt Barrister:

If he was any good on private parking, then we'd signpost to him (like we do to Jackson Yamba at Contestor Legal) but you will notice that we don't. There's a reason for that!

I've been wholly unimpressed by the videos by the Blackbelt Barrister (albeit he's well intentioned). He is about ten years behind us on this. We tested it. It doesn't win in court.

I've never lost in court v parking firms (I have beaten more than one barrister) and I'm on the Government Steering Group. He isn't...!

My role involves direct discussions with the Minister responsible for the new statutory regulations and I've been doing this for 5 years now.

Whilst I mentioned them, I didn't push for the 2013 regs to be mentioned in the 2022 Code. I did get the Equality Act, the EHRC EA Code and the Consumer Rights Act (CRA 2015) included by the then DLUHC, because that's the main consumer legislation that most people can rely upon and that judges will (have to) consider in all parking cases.

Forgive me if I repeat this one more time:

What you describe is a case crying out for you to rely on the CRA 2015 by talking about  poor signs and lines and the fact that putting a prohibitive sign up (presumably saying 'No Parking') offers nothing of value to drivers, so there was no contract as a matter of fact and law.

Do you have photos of the sign and place you stopped? Show us.

  

PolePosition2

"Do you have photos of the sign and place you stopped"?

Here it is...........