Openreach cannot install Fibre Broadband as neighbour refusing to give permission to work

smipsy

35har1old said:

 I think they should be looking to excavate a new route to your premise.

Are they obliged to do this? It seems like they're just not going to bother as it's too much work!

35har1old said:

The cabinet you mention are you sure it is a green BT firbe cabinet as most fibre connections are made in underground chambers 

Yeah, it's the green cabinet, the engineer also said that's where the cabling starts from.

Grumpy_chap said:

Maybe the landowner was too greedy in asking for payment for early access so OpenReach are just going to serve notice and do the job when the timelines are exhausted.

I wasn't under the impression this is their plan as they stated they are just going to cancel the order instead as they can't service the request.

smipsy

iniltous said:

It’s unusual for a duct feeding your property to be in another persons garden , there can be situations where a ‘service strip’ rather than a proper footpath was provided by the developer,  to benefit the ‘street scene’ , it’s purely aesthetic device to improve the look of an area ,  this can be especially prevalent in the head of  cul-de-sacs built in the 1990 and onwards , basically the front garden borders directly with the road , approximately the last metre of garden  ( where a footpath would normally be ) is the service strip and  utilities , gas ,water  , electricity, communications exist under that area , the problem is after many years of the householder maintaining this area as part of their front garden , it effectively becomes a part of the property so should excavation be needed  , if it were a proper footpath there would be no issue , a householder can’t complain of a footpath being excavated outside their house , but in a service strip is  a grey area , and basically if the householder won’t allow any work in the service strip, that’s pretty much it …is this anything like your situation  ?

it is a cul-de-sac from around 1990s, but I don't think there is such a service strip area, and from what the openreach engineer described this is really in the front garden itself

iniltous said:

As stated OR could apply for a compulsory wayleave but that’s a very rare occurrence, it’s more likely they will simply indicate that the address is problematic, and not take any further orders for that address once the VF order is cancelled , presumably you have FTTC access already so any universal service obligation is already met , so it’s not like you have no alternative, so I doubt OR will  ever take the legal route.

I do officially have access to FTTC, but from the BT data it appears there are copper restrictions on the line itself and copper would only be allowed by exception. would this qualify for an exception?

iniltous said:

If you know the address that’s refusing permission to dig , are they being reasonable, if they had a imprinted concrete driveway, or resin bonded driveway that had to be interfered with , excavation will leave scars , so it’s understandable they would refuse, but if it’s only grass , block paving or any surface that can easily be reinstated without any witness marks being left afterwards, that’s IMHO unreasonable, perhaps having a friendly word , pointing out it’s affecting you , and especially if it a service strip it’s not technically their property anyway , may help 

no, nothing to do with their driveway. the surface area is about 10-15cm in diameter, but obviously to dig around for it would cause a larger hole. but it is all contained to the front garden. personally if it was the other way around, i would have no issue with it, the area / soil would look disturbed for a while, but then the grass would regrow and that would be it.

if it all fails, I will end up speaking to them just to try and understand what the issue is, but I am not hopeful. I still want Openreach to exhaust all their options first 

littleboo

35har1old said:

iniltous said:

It’s unusual for a duct feeding your property to be in another persons garden , there can be situations where a ‘service strip’ rather than a proper footpath was provided by the developer,  to benefit the ‘street scene’ , it’s purely aesthetic device to improve the look of an area ,  this can be especially prevalent in the head of  cul-de-sacs built in the 1990 and onwards , basically the front garden borders directly with the road , approximately the last metre of garden  ( where a footpath would normally be ) is the service strip and  utilities , gas ,water  , electricity, communications exist under that area , the problem is after many years of the householder maintaining this area as part of their front garden , it effectively becomes a part of the property so should excavation be needed  , if it were a proper footpath there would be no issue , a householder can’t complain of a footpath being excavated outside their house , but in a service strip is  a grey area , and basically if the householder won’t allow any work in the service strip, that’s pretty much it …is this anything like your situation  ?

As stated OR could apply for a compulsory wayleave but that’s a very rare occurrence, it’s more likely they will simply indicate that the address is problematic, and not take any further orders for that address once the VF order is cancelled , presumably you have FTTC access already so any universal service obligation is already met , so it’s not like you have no alternative, so I doubt OR will  ever take the legal route .

If you know the address that’s refusing permission to dig , are they being reasonable, if they had a imprinted concrete driveway, or resin bonded driveway that had to be interfered with , excavation will leave scars , so it’s understandable they would refuse, but if it’s only grass , block paving or any surface that can easily be reinstated without any witness marks being left afterwards, that’s IMHO unreasonable, perhaps having a friendly word , pointing out it’s affecting you , and especially if it a service strip it’s not technically their property anyway , may help 

As the aim is to have everybody switched to full fibre by 2027 the universal service won't be met and as the future viewing of tv signals will require a faster speed with the possibility of the masts being decommissioned sometime after 2034

Thats not correct. The target is 25 million homes passed by end of 2026, and 30 million by 2030.

Hoenir

smipsy said:

I will end up speaking to them just to try and understand what the issue is, but I am not hopeful. I still want Openreach to exhaust all their options first 

You've nothing to lose. Might even facilitate a solution. 

james_smitha

Is 5g mobile an option? Modems that use a 5g signal instead of a feed from your prefered cable provider are a real thing. For example gl-inet gl-x3000. Just insert a sim card and go, just try different window sills but reboot the device with each location change

Rob5342

It might be worth speaking to them to find out what the problem is. I would suggest pointing out that all connections will eventually be converted to full fibre so fibre will need to be run to both your houses at some point, and if they refuse permission they could end up with a telegraph pole spoiling the look of their house. 

smipsy

Just by means of an update, should anyone ever have an issue like this where Vodafone is the provider:

Eventually, after 60 days have passed without obtaining the permission to work, Vodafone have cancelled the offer and paid me off with £366 compensation.

I have since then ordered Sky fibre broadband, fully expecting to fail again, but at least I'd rack up compo again. However, it transpires that, despite Vodafone saying they've tried multiple times, they never did try to speak to the neighbours. Openreach came to assess the cabinet within 48-72 hours, found the same issue again and informed Sky. Sky/Openreach then seemed to have just knocked on the neighbour's door, explained what it is for, obtained permission on the day and completed the repairs on the day with an incredibly small dig in the neighbour's front garden, which you can't even see anymore.

So yeah, Sky has now fixed it and I now have full fibre broadband. Sky sorted it within 72 hours, and Vodafone couldn't do it in 60+ days.

So it's not necessarily always crappy neighbours, sometimes it's just crappy Vodafone.

Cheers all, appreciated your help in this!

bubieyehyeh

QrizB said:

35har1old said:

As the aim is to have everybody switched to full fibre by 2027 the universal service won't be met and as the future viewing of tv signals will require a faster speed with the possibility of the masts being decommissioned sometime after 2034

An entire DVB-T multiplex tops out at about 30Mbps. That's towards the slower end of FTTC. A single channel is more like 4Mbps. "Viewing of TV signals" does not require VDSL, let alone FTTP.

A DVB multiplex can feed several TVs in a house, but unicast IP streams would need seperate streams for each. Current HD channels can peak to about 13Mbit/s. UHD can be over 20Mbit/s. So a VDSL may be a bit restrictive long term.

400ixl

As much as I think Vodafone is a poor excuse for an ISP I don't think this was them.

Sounds more like second time around there was a more proactive Openreach engineer who spoke to the neighbour rather than just leaving. Sky would not have sent someone out specifically to go knock on a door.

Enjoy the new connection.

Rob5342

Sometimes you just need someone with a bit of initiative to get things sorted.