David Lloyd Changing their T&Cs

whowants2brich

Hi all,

Has anyone else just received a letter in the post (sent probably during or shortly before the Xmas break) advising that David Lloyd has decided to change their terms and conditions?

Following is a quote from the notice that was received in the post:

"Mermebrship fees are due annually in advance.

All members shall pay the relevant annual Membership and Administration Fee which will become immediately due when the member is accepted for Membership. The annual Membership Fee will be payable at the option of the Member in either a single annual payment or in deferred monthly payments, which monthly payments will be inclusive of a premium charged for this form of payment.

As a member you must pay for your membership either by way of a single annual payment or by monthly payments using direct debits unless we agree otherwise."

They state that a 10% surcharge will be added if monthly direct debit is chosen - I suppose this will be as a form of penalty in order to get an extra amount of money from the gym members. The other question that springs to mind is if members will get a pro-rata refund on the annual payment if they then choose to leave the gym - or if they will be effectively tied in for 12 months, lest they lose money which they have already paid?

The other question is that they sent the letter earliest mid-December, yet in the original Ts & Cs, they state that "they may vary the terms and conditions by writing to the address of the members and providing one months notice." However, in this case, it was definitely less than one month - as the new terms come into effect TODAY, Jan 1st 2008!

I'd love to know if anyone has had 12 months membership taken from their account, or if anyone from David Lloyd would be prepared to say that people would get a refund if they leave, after having paid up front. Alternatively, would the OFT be interested in yet another way for this unpopular gym to trap their members for even longer - and get more money out of them wherever possible...

Your thoughts/comments please - and as usual, apologies if this is in the wrong board...

Thanks!

Whowants2brich

KILL_BILL

if its a 12 month minimum contract and unless you can give them a reason for not going to the gym no more, like breaking your leg or providing medical evidence then you would only get a pro rata refund after your initial 12 months.

i dont work for dl btw

whowants2brich

The original contract states a 3-month initial contract, followed by one full month's notice. The question here is if one were to cancel after having paid the annual membership fee, would David Lloyd consider giving pro-rata refunds or would the members be tied in to a 12-month membership, even if the membership has a one month notice period? Alternatively, making members pay 10% more so as not to be tied in for 12 months is potentially unfair, in my opinion...

Agree or disagree?

Thanks,
Whowants2brich

pault123

I received my letter and am disgusted!

1. If I pay up front DL make plenty of interest % off the lump sum, I lose interest %. :mad:
2. At £120 ish for my couple membership per month thats £1440 up front or I get penalised?! :mad:
3. Penalised at 10% per month £12 extra / £144 a year! :mad:
4. Both options benefit DL in a very unfair way
5. The 1 month notice of changes to T+C as of today and I got my letter four days ago :mad:


I'm hoping this is a mistake on DL's part.

KILL_BILL

whowants2brich wrote: »

The original contract states a 3-month initial contract, followed by one full month's notice. The question here is if one were to cancel after having paid the annual membership fee, would David Lloyd consider giving pro-rata refunds or would the members be tied in to a 12-month membership, even if the membership has a one month notice period? Alternatively, making members pay 10% more so as not to be tied in for 12 months is potentially unfair, in my opinion...

Agree or disagree?

Thanks,
Whowants2brich

thats how it works - most gyms put there fees at paying in advance for the year cheaper than paying on a month by month basis.

if you paid for the year and then you tried left they say that your not entitled to a pro rata refund.

its a con but thats how they operate

pault123

I would usually hope for a discount by paying via direct debit

RadoJo

In many cases, a charge is levied for the 'loan' the company make you of the year's fees when if you choose to pay monthly. This works the same for insurance, as it is a sum they can predict. With monthly billing for services however, the discount for paying by direct debit is because it is a cheaper way of collecting monies owed than individual payments every month.

pault123

The way DL have done it is sneaky - they have never had this 10% monthly payment surcharge, so as soon as they have used up their yearly price increases, they decide to pull this card out. Its underhanded and stinks!

My local DL to really turn the knife; have converted 2 of the squash courts and moved the free weights into a smaller area to build a new spa area. It has a huge jacuzzi (the old one has been rebuilt to now resembles a bath tub in size) two steam rooms, a sauna, ice dip, and heated loungers. All members can use this new area until middle of Jan. Then its an extra £15 a month if we want to carry on using it!! The old area steam room hardly works anymore, and the sauna heat has been turned down.

So lets see £120 a month for me and SO, £30 a month for spa area, and 10% surcharge for DD = £165 a month!!! OUCH

sparvar

It's madness, gyms seem to be a law unto themselves, the only way to stop them is if we all stop joining the ones with the most ridiculous rules, LA Fitness I have had numerous problems with when I was a member and I vowed never to re-join.I am a member of David Lloyd for about 2 years, it'll be interesting to see what happens... although probably quite annoying!

RufusA

I also received the T&C changes leaflet in the post, on the 31st December, for changes taking place on the 1st January.

Last time they changed T&Cs they gave 3 months notice and had a nice summary letter explaining the key points. This time, no covering letter just a "Notification of changes" small print leaflet snuck in amoungst some David Lloyd junk mail about getting motivated in the new year!

A few things concern me:

1) Insufficient notice of changes given.
2) The leaflet is confusing (they won't be getting a Crystal Mark) i.e. 1.2 is a New Term, and subsequent terms are renumbered i.e. 1.13 (d) amends 1.12 (d) from the old T&Cs.
3) The membership rate increase date has been moved from 1st Oct to 1st Jan :eek:
4) The 10% charge for "deferred monthly payments" sounds VERY close to interest payments on a loan of the "annual membership" fee. Similar to what an insurance company will charge you if you had opted to pay your motor insurance monthly. If this is the case shouldn't the Consumer Credit Act kick in, where's the statement of the cost of the loan, APR, total payable etc.

IMHO it is VERY underhand.

I spoke with membership services at my local DL club (Brooklands) who were of the view that nothing has really changed and I shouldn't worry.

Currently writing to manager of Brooklands club ccing DL head office, and will probably raise it with Trading Standards.

If this is a sign of what the sale of the clubs by Whitbread to HBOS means, my membership won't be continuing much longer!

Doing a quick google for David LLoyd, there are quite a few people unhappy about this issue!

Rufus.

carnassials

Sorry first time poster but I feel this is relevant.

Received the same leaflet on 2nd January and contacted Consumer Direct the same day. Here is their reply:-

Dear Miss,

Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct received on the 2nd January 2008.

Based on the information you have provided, we recommend that you firstly examine the terms and conditions of your gym membership with David Lloyds, to identify whether it specifies the charging information outlined in the notice you have received. If this is specified and you have entered into a membership agreement with the trader, you may be legally bound to the agreement.

If the trader has failed to notify you of a change in their terms and conditions within a ‘reasonable time’ and they are trying to charge a higher membership rate than initially agreed, it could be argued that any new terms that the trader is relying upon may be deemed to be ‘unfair’ (i.e. cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract) under the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The decision as to whether the term is deemed to be ‘unfair’ may be down to a judge in a court of law based on the arguments and evidence placed before them.

Consumer Direct would not recommend that you cancel your direct debit payments as you may be held in breach of contract. We would advise that you continue to pay ‘under protest’ until the matter is resolved. However, it may be worth sending a recorded delivery letter to the trader, outlining everything to date, making ‘time of the essence’ for the trader to resolve the matter within a set period of time (i.e. 14 working days). It is also worth retaining copies of everything sent for your records.

In order to assist you further, I have provided the contact details for the Office of Fair Trading below, who may be able to advise you further on this matter.

Office of Fair Trading
Fleetbank House
2-6 Salisbury Square
London, EC4Y 8JX.

Tel: 08457 22 44 99
Web: www.oft.gov.uk


Seeing as I have mislaid my T&Cs I cannot examine them, (however according to Office of Fair Trading's website (search David Lloyd) there is a requirement for a notice 4 months before any change to the T&Cs. I joined 5 months ago so they had plenty of time to notify me of changes.

Here is the quote:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/consumer-regulations/traders/249/1/

"Term 15 of the Membership Agreement required the company to give its members seven months' notice in writing of any change. As a consequence of this, all revisions, except for term 8d, became effective from 9 February 2002. The revision to term 8d became effective from 1 July 2001. Term 15 has been revised so that the company will be required to give only four months' notice of any changes."

I think I will go in today and cancel, ask for a reduction for the notice period out of complaint, better to just walk away I suppose.