Refusing to refund VAT. Is this allowed?

DullGreyGuy

Mintsource said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated. 

Was the total cost under or over £135?

Where are the goods being returned to? UK or outside UK? Where is the return to sender address on the original label, UK or outside UK?

£470
All transactions within the UK.

Well they are in California so it's not all in the UK. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Mintsource said:

Wouldn't this also be something HMRC would frown upon if they're collecting the VAT and then not paying it?
I can't imagine they would pay the VAT to HMRC, why would they? They'd be in receipt of the item to resell and then charge VAT from the new buyer.

I would imagine a company this size does it's accounts correctly  

If they retained £200 "VAT" from your order they'd keep £166.67 and pay £33.33 in VAT. 

Mintsource said:

The strange thing is, they've refunded me the £20 P&P cost already and I haven't even returned the item.

Best bet is to return, see what they refund and then go from there (with popping back here for more advice if you need). 

It really depends on where the goods are coming from, where they are being stored etc. The sale is with a California based company and so you have the whole international sales, import costs etc. Couriers offer the service of dealing with it for the parties and so actually the £200 VAT has been paid to the courier who paid it to HMRC when they brought the parcel into the UK. Ive never looked into who has to claim it back from HMRC if you've paid a landed price rather than the normal retail price and you repay the courier for the taxes. 

The OP seems unaware that they are non-UK entity so wonder if we can really know where the parcel came from etc. 

Mintsource

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated. 

Was the total cost under or over £135?

Where are the goods being returned to? UK or outside UK? Where is the return to sender address on the original label, UK or outside UK?

£470
All transactions within the UK.

Well they are in California so it's not all in the UK. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Mintsource said:

Wouldn't this also be something HMRC would frown upon if they're collecting the VAT and then not paying it?
I can't imagine they would pay the VAT to HMRC, why would they? They'd be in receipt of the item to resell and then charge VAT from the new buyer.

I would imagine a company this size does it's accounts correctly  

If they retained £200 "VAT" from your order they'd keep £166.67 and pay £33.33 in VAT. 

Mintsource said:

The strange thing is, they've refunded me the £20 P&P cost already and I haven't even returned the item.

Best bet is to return, see what they refund and then go from there (with popping back here for more advice if you need). 

It really depends on where the goods are coming from, where they are being stored etc. The sale is with a California based company and so you have the whole international sales, import costs etc. Couriers offer the service of dealing with it for the parties and so actually the £200 VAT has been paid to the courier who paid it to HMRC when they brought the parcel into the UK. Ive never looked into who has to claim it back from HMRC if you've paid a landed price rather than the normal retail price and you repay the courier for the taxes. 

The OP seems unaware that they are non-UK entity so wonder if we can really know where the parcel came from etc. 

I am not sure if this helps at all?

user1977

The “Vat: US” seems relevant here.

Having a UK address doesn’t change who you’re contracting with.

Okell

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated. 

Was the total cost under or over £135?

Where are the goods being returned to? UK or outside UK? Where is the return to sender address on the original label, UK or outside UK?

£470
All transactions within the UK.

Well they are in California so it's not all in the UK. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Mintsource said:

Wouldn't this also be something HMRC would frown upon if they're collecting the VAT and then not paying it?
I can't imagine they would pay the VAT to HMRC, why would they? They'd be in receipt of the item to resell and then charge VAT from the new buyer.

I would imagine a company this size does it's accounts correctly  

If they retained £200 "VAT" from your order they'd keep £166.67 and pay £33.33 in VAT. 

Mintsource said:

The strange thing is, they've refunded me the £20 P&P cost already and I haven't even returned the item.

Best bet is to return, see what they refund and then go from there (with popping back here for more advice if you need). 

It really depends on where the goods are coming from, where they are being stored etc. The sale is with a California based company and so you have the whole international sales, import costs etc. Couriers offer the service of dealing with it for the parties and so actually the £200 VAT has been paid to the courier who paid it to HMRC when they brought the parcel into the UK. Ive never looked into who has to claim it back from HMRC if you've paid a landed price rather than the normal retail price and you repay the courier for the taxes. 

The OP seems unaware that they are non-UK entity so wonder if we can really know where the parcel came from etc. 

Zwift might be based in California, but hasn't the item been delivered from their UK base as shown on the OP's paperwork?  It hasn't been shipped from California, it's come from Blackburn* in Lancashire.  (Sounds like a song...?).

I think I'd go back to Zwift and point out to them (1) that their own T&Cs say that UK law applies to the contract, and (2) that under UK law they are required to refundthe VAT paid.  It doesn't matter what else their returns policy/T&Cs say as they can't limit their liability under UK law.


*At least that's how I interpret the OP's paperwork

Okell

user1977 said:

The “Vat: US” seems relevant here.

Having a UK address doesn’t change who you’re contracting with.

Sorry, but where did you see that?

user1977

Okell said:

user1977 said:

The “Vat: US” seems relevant here.

Having a UK address doesn’t change who you’re contracting with.

Sorry, but where did you see that?

Under the "Supplier" address on the shipping details.

Mintsource

They have come back with

"Sorry for the delayed response. I appreciate your patience during this time. We have not forgotten about you and are committed to providing you with the best support possible.

I regret to inform you that the VAT charged for the purchases on Zwiftshop.com is non-refundable.

Nevertheless, if you need it after you complete the purchase, we can provide you with an invoice with our VAT information so you can reclaim it with the local tax authorities. We appreciate your understanding."

Okell

user1977 said:

Okell said:

user1977 said:

The “Vat: US” seems relevant here.

Having a UK address doesn’t change who you’re contracting with.

Sorry, but where did you see that?

Under the "Supplier" address on the shipping details.

Thanks.  But what would be its significance at the end of an address?

Alderbank

Wahoo Fitness LLC is a US company based in Atlanta GA who among many other things operates a worldwide logistics operation for fitness products from their warehouses in the US, Australia, Taiwan, Netherlands and London.
A bit like Amazon fulfilment centres.
https://uk.wahoofitness.com/terms-of-service

I assume that Zwift has a B2B contract with Wahoo to supply goods to Zwift's customers.

Staci UK is also a large international fulfilment centre, UK based but operating in many countries. https://uk.staci.com/

Doubtless they have B2B contracts with Wahoo and/or with Zwift, but I am sure that the OP's contract is actually with Zwift

born_again

Mintsource said:

They have come back with

"Sorry for the delayed response. I appreciate your patience during this time. We have not forgotten about you and are committed to providing you with the best support possible.

I regret to inform you that the VAT charged for the purchases on Zwiftshop.com is non-refundable.

Nevertheless, if you need it after you complete the purchase, we can provide you with an invoice with our VAT information so you can reclaim it with the local tax authorities. We appreciate your understanding."

Very strange thing to say.

Does the doc you show above have their VAT number on it?