Refusing to refund VAT. Is this allowed?

Mintsource

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

powerful_Rogue

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

From looking at their website, appears sales are covered under the laws of California.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

From looking at their website, appears sales are covered under the laws of California.

Followed by

However, you will benefit from any mandatory provisions of the law of your local jurisdiction, and nothing in these Terms affects your rights as a consumer to rely on such mandatory provisions of local law. You or we may bring a legal action relating to these Terms or our relationship in either the state or federal courts located in Los Angeles, California or in the courts located in your country of residence.

https://support.zwift.com/en_us/terms-of-service-for-users-in-europe-ryVA3WpbB

Includes UK customers  

So yes OP they should refund the VAT* if you are within 14 days of delivery and are making a clear statement that are exercising your right to cancel in accordance with the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (as apposed to any policy that they may offer in addition). 

*This assumes you paid them the VAT rather than you paying it separately upon import if shipped from outside the UK. 

DullGreyGuy

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated. 

Was the total cost under or over £135?

Where are the goods being returned to? UK or outside UK? Where is the return to sender address on the original label, UK or outside UK?

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From looking at their website, appears sales are covered under the laws of California.

... So yes OP they should refund the VAT* if you are within 14 days of delivery and are making a clear statement that are exercising your right to cancel in accordance with the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (as apposed to any policy that they may offer in addition)...

Won't the cancellation period be extended beyond 14 days as the T&Cs (as supplied by the OP) are non-compliant with the CCRs?

The T&Cs explicitly say they do not offer "cancellation" and I doubt that they spell out anywhere else to a UK customer their statutory right to cancel.

[Edit:  Looks like I'm probably wrong about that.  they sort of cover the statutory right to cancel under para 8(o) of the link given by the lunatic...    ]

Good luck to the OP trying to explain this to someone in California...

Okell

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated...

I suspect he's using the term generically to refer to one of these Zwift Compatible Smart Trainers | Includes 1-Year Zwift Membership

Okell

@Mintsource -  have you pointed out to them that their own T&Cs as linked to above by the lunatic give you the right to cancel within 14 days for a full refund?

Para 8(o) says:  "Cancellation and Refunds – Products. You have a legal right to cancel your purchase of any Product made via the Platform and request a full refund (including any shipping or handling charges) at any time within 14 days from the date of delivery of the Product to the delivery address that you indicated at the time of purchase".

What date did you receive the trainer and what date did you tell them you wanted to return/cancel it?

If you are still within 14 days of delivery, go back and tell them you are exercising your statutory right to cancel a distance contract as the lunatic has suggested above.

If you are already more than 14 days past delivery it might be more complicated...

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From looking at their website, appears sales are covered under the laws of California.

... So yes OP they should refund the VAT* if you are within 14 days of delivery and are making a clear statement that are exercising your right to cancel in accordance with the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (as apposed to any policy that they may offer in addition)...

Won't the cancellation period be extended beyond 14 days as the T&Cs (as supplied by the OP) are non-compliant with the CCRs?

The T&Cs explicitly say they do not offer "cancellation" and I doubt that they spell out anywhere else to a UK customer their statutory right to cancel.

[Edit:  Looks like I'm probably wrong about that.  they sort of cover the statutory right to cancel under para 8(o) of the link given by the lunatic...    ]

Good luck to the OP trying to explain this to someone in California...

Yes they do acknowledge it, and other than saying to see return policy and sale items can't be returned they don't say much else to get much wrong, however can't see cost of return so they may be on the hook for that as well...

Mintsource

DullGreyGuy said:

Mintsource said:

I bought a turbo trainer online (electronic equipment) via Zwift. It is unboxed, brand new, unbroken seals etc.

I have filled out their Returns Form but it deducts the VAT.

I have reached out to them and they state as per their returns policy they do not reimburse VAT.

1. I can't see it in their Return Policy (See image)
2. How are they allowed to keep VAT on an item they're able to resell to another consumer
3. Isn't this against the Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything described as a turbo trainer on their website which always makes things complicated. 

Was the total cost under or over £135?

Where are the goods being returned to? UK or outside UK? Where is the return to sender address on the original label, UK or outside UK?

£470
All transactions within the UK.

Mintsource

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From looking at their website, appears sales are covered under the laws of California.

... So yes OP they should refund the VAT* if you are within 14 days of delivery and are making a clear statement that are exercising your right to cancel in accordance with the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (as apposed to any policy that they may offer in addition)...

Won't the cancellation period be extended beyond 14 days as the T&Cs (as supplied by the OP) are non-compliant with the CCRs?

The T&Cs explicitly say they do not offer "cancellation" and I doubt that they spell out anywhere else to a UK customer their statutory right to cancel.

[Edit:  Looks like I'm probably wrong about that.  they sort of cover the statutory right to cancel under para 8(o) of the link given by the lunatic...    ]

Good luck to the OP trying to explain this to someone in California...

Yes they do acknowledge it, and other than saying to see return policy and sale items can't be returned they don't say much else to get much wrong, however can't see cost of return so they may be on the hook for that as well...

The strange thing is, they've refunded me the £20 P&P cost already and I haven't even returned the item.

I filled out their form and noticed the VAT was missing. I emailed them and they replied "As per our Return Policy we don't reimburse VAT" which is why I am here. So, it looks like they have to reimburse VAT.

Wouldn't this also be something HMRC would frown upon if they're collecting the VAT and then not paying it?
I can't imagine they would pay the VAT to HMRC, why would they? They'd be in receipt of the item to resell and then charge VAT from the new buyer.

It's all a bit shady in my opinion.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Mintsource said:

Wouldn't this also be something HMRC would frown upon if they're collecting the VAT and then not paying it?
I can't imagine they would pay the VAT to HMRC, why would they? They'd be in receipt of the item to resell and then charge VAT from the new buyer.

I would imagine a company this size does it's accounts correctly  

If they retained £200 "VAT" from your order they'd keep £166.67 and pay £33.33 in VAT. 

Mintsource said:

The strange thing is, they've refunded me the £20 P&P cost already and I haven't even returned the item.

Best bet is to return, see what they refund and then go from there (with popping back here for more advice if you need).