eBay "Buyer Protection Fees" (New charges for buyers from private sellers) - Details just recieved

prowla

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

That's a bit like saying VAT isn't a tax because we pay the price we see when we go to the shops.

But has VAT stopped anyone buying stuff? 

I doubt it, but there are (legal) ways of avoiding VAT, including duty free, company purchases, going elsewhere.

With eBay the option will be the last of those.

99.9% of population don't do either of things for 99.9% of their purchases. I'm not sure how you can go elsewhere to not pay VAT? 

I'm also not sure where else the buyers will be going, fees elsewhere are much higher than 4% which is included in the price regardless of who pays it. 

If the buyers go straight to China then they'll wait longer and have less protection. 

Ultimately if you want to buy a 1987 Argos catalogue you are probably going to have to buy it on eBay... 

Of course I'm not saying it's for everyday purchases for the 99.9%.

But eBay purchases tend not to be for everyday items.

Examples of "elsewhere" include:

• If you want to avoid UK VAT you can buy abroad; as an example, the Swiss do that sort of thing, popping across to France for their shopping.
• Choosing someone who will take cash-in-hand for jobs.
• Checking for things of Freecycle rather than buying is another way (and very MSE!).
• Choosing to buy a used car from an individual rather than a dealer.
• Buying smaller items from abroad which fall below the import thresholds.
  

So yes, there's a number of ways where people have gone elsewhere (than a VAT-charging supplier).

Anyway, the assertion was that the compulsory eBay fees are a buyer's tax and VAT was given as a tax which is an example which is included in the purchase price.

Nope.  Not any more.

Also buying stuff abroad, haven't you paid VAT on the travelling to get there and back (flight, train, fuel, or any other method)?  You'll probably have paid EU VAT or other local sales tax on the item anyway.

It would be a bizarre hill to die on, trying to avoid specifically UK VAT.

Anyway, the assertion was that the compulsory eBay fees are a buyer's tax.

I've indulged you in responding to your whataboutery, but I'm bored with that now, so I wish you a good day.

Rantband

You are running a business(buying to sell) so the account should be a business account.Not sure where PayPal comes into this,thought everyone was now on Ebay managed accounts.

jeffuk

yebaws said:

- final value fee @ 10.67% = £0.25

It's free to sell now on ebay for private sellers, there are no final value fees. It sounds like you are a business seller though.

noitsnotme

yebaws said:

jeffuk said:

yebaws said:

- final value fee @ 10.67% = £0.25

It's free to sell now on ebay for private sellers, there are no final value fees. It sounds like you are a business seller though.

I am not a business seller. As I said:

"My current setup as a private seller (**before ebay fees for private sellers were removed**) for a typical item"

"After ebay removed seller fees, this profit went up to £1.32,"

sorry, probably confusing to use an example from earlier in 2024 before the seller fees were removed, but I think my example is clear if you read it through

Rantband said:

You are running a business(buying to sell) so the account should be a business account.Not sure where PayPal comes into this,thought everyone was now on Ebay managed accounts.

I declare all of my income to the revenue. Most stuff sold on ebay has been bought before it is sold, whether it was bought with the intention of selling it or not. Many people sell in the way that I do as private sellers and there is nothing from prohibiting them from doing that.

Just really looking for an answer to my question about the listing fee for auto-renewing listings. Any current business seller will know this.

If you are buying anything with the specific reason to resell it for a profit then you ARE a business seller.  The fact you are declaring your income to HMRC reinforces this.  eBays T&Cs mean you need a business account for this type of selling.

Any of your old possessions you are selling just to get rid of, then you can sell them privately, but then “profit” doesn’t come in to it.

You need two selling accounts.  A private one for selling your old possessions.  And a business one for the selling the stuff you are specifically buying to sell for a profit.

soolin

yebaws said:

If anybody wants to be helpful and answer my question, I'll be very grateful.

Firstly I feel I must reinforce the statement that you are a business seller , there’s no grey areas, no misunderstanding, if you buy to sell you are a business. 

Business fees are subject to VAT which I don’t think you’ve accounted for and listing fees are 35p (not 30p) and auto renew every month . If you sell a lot then look at a shop,  they start at £27 plus VAT. I’ve no idea what your PayPal fees are for as we’re not charged for that  the simplest way is to prepare figures this way

item sale price.                  X
Postage charged to buyer x 
Total                                   XX

then take off FVFs (make sure you account for VAT and listing fee

to give a total received.  Y

from Y take off your initial item cost price and actual postage paid out. 

I do it that way as if I can calculate Y quickly I can make a snap decision if I see something that I’m considering buying. 


For any private sellers reading this , the 75p ‘standing’ charge is going to be the killer on the very low end items, so consider bundling items into lots or just donating to charity. 

Debbie9009

You are a business seller and should have a business account, as a genuine private seller, ( sell around 7-10 items a year that are personal items I no longer want) I get really cross with people like yourself, because you are the reason eBay have made these changes, I won’t buy from private sellers who are clearly businesses because it’s not fair to genuine private sellers, and business sellers who are operating correctly as business.

RFW

I don't know why you wouldn't have a business seller account if you are a business. Even if it was legitimate to be registered as a private seller on Ebay, there's no way to grow a business by being a private seller.

Dizzycap

It's the BUYERS’ PROTECTION that's the biggest laugh of all! Buyers already have protection with eBay's Moneyback Guarentee. If a seller doesn't send an items or an item is SNAD the buyer is covered, albeit at cost to the seller. So what's the additional protection charge for, exactly? Reminds me of the Kr*y bothers protection racket.

As a private seller, I don't often list much, except when I'm have a clear out burst. There are other platforms to buy & sell on which are far, far less complicated than eBay. eBay keep reinventing the wheel along with constant category updates, redesign through admin tech bordom, and mountains of items specifics which can't even be seen in the App, let alone the actual decription - oh look, that tiny more....link which actually gives the full description. An App btw that has weekly updates but fails to alerts it's users to actually update. Thankfully, I only have and use the eBay app for notifications, which has also gone pearshaped after the last update. It 'pings' but there's nothing there. Obviously, a  poltergiest in the system.......

soolin

I do understand the worry that some truly private sellers have about these changes, obviously is actually affects only a tiny minority of sellers overall, but that doesn't mean they can't feel concerned about the changes.

However we must remember that a) this doesn't apply to business sellers at all and b) the new fees (regardless of what they are called) are lower for the majority of private sellers than they were in September. The only sellers that will be negatively impacted are those private sellers who sell very low cost items where the 75p fixed charge represents a large proportion of the item's value. This could hit sellers of small items like stamps, postcards, coins etc that are selling off a lifetimes collection.  

Before the totally free selling was introduced in October I tended to sell things in bundles, when October hit I de bundled a few items as people seemed happy to pay £1.55 postage on an item worth £1.50-£2.50 or so, however from February 4th I suppose I will have to re bundle items just to get this stuff sold or else just accept it is no longer saleable and do a big charity shop drop. 

I do still have real concerns though that the amount of arm waving and cries of 'the sky is falling in' on forums, groups, facebook etc where sellers haven't actually bothered to read the announcement or have not understood it. A quick browse yesterday evening and again this morning shows posts from people still wittering on about how this will destroy their 'business' or what to do with the huge amount of say cosmetics or stationery they have on order at the wholesaler which will now be uneconomical to sell. 

Realistically private sellers paid fees for years and we've only had 3 months of free selling , lets not forget that. Yes I would prefer to be able to sell all my tat completely free rather than charity shop it, but we all must have realised it wasn't going to last for ever. 

soolin

Also amusingly on a semi private forum I read where it is possible to link the actual seller account, there were several sellers stating quite firmly that they had finally closed their accounts back in December and were leaving ebay for good - who today are still uploading and listing as we speak.