eBay "Buyer Protection Fees" (New charges for buyers from private sellers) - Details just recieved

RFW

Olinda99 said:

not sure why! 

The buyer pays a price for the item. In the past, 'sellers fees' were then deducted but now 'buyers fees' are deducted

What is the difference? Why did they not just increase seller's fees to 75p plus 4%?

At a guess I'd say that it caused them headaches at the low value end and items that brought in the least revenue caused the most problems. We often see on here and elsewhere sellers saying that they didn't realise that the seller fees were so high. With this system there is close to zero chance of confusion for a seller to know what they'll get back when an item sells. No more complaints about any of the fees, including those on postage.
Plus they have the added gimmick of being able to say there are no more private seller fees and more buyer protection. Even if it's not particularly true it will still get some old buyers and sellers back on site.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

That's a bit like saying VAT isn't a tax because we pay the price we see when we go to the shops.

But has VAT stopped anyone buying stuff? 

I doubt it, but there are (legal) ways of avoiding VAT, including duty free, company purchases, going elsewhere.

With eBay the option will be the last of those.

99.9% of population don't do either of things for 99.9% of their purchases. I'm not sure how you can go elsewhere to not pay VAT? 

I'm also not sure where else the buyers will be going, fees elsewhere are much higher than 4% which is included in the price regardless of who pays it. 

If the buyers go straight to China then they'll wait longer and have less protection. 

Ultimately if you want to buy a 1987 Argos catalogue you are probably going to have to buy it on eBay... 

RedImp_2

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

I think that’s the thing that intrigues me.
As a buyer if in the past I wanted to bid say a max of £10, then obviously I would bid just that.
In future though am I still bidding £10 but less of that goes to the seller or am I bidding £10 but at some point it becomes clear I’m paying £11.15.  I can’t quite figure out what the buyer will see as the figure varies unlike say the postage amount.
I’m sure all will be crystal clear in February!

Spoonie_Turtle

RedImp_2 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

I think that’s the thing that intrigues me.
As a buyer if in the past I wanted to bid say a max of £10, then obviously I would bid just that.
In future though am I still bidding £10 but less of that goes to the seller or am I bidding £10 but at some point it becomes clear I’m paying £11.15.  I can’t quite figure out what the buyer will see as the figure varies unlike say the postage amount.
I’m sure all will be crystal clear in February!

From what details are available it's this one, except that's the way it always was with eBay anyway when they had seller fees.  The only difference is the seller sets the starting price based on the minimum they'll accept then eBay shows us that plus fees, rather than setting the start price as 'the minimum they'll accept plus fees'.

E.g. before, if seller wanted minimum £10, they'd have to set the starting bid at (say) £11.50
Now, they set it at £10 and eBay shows it to us as (say) £11.15
(Examples for illustration only, not based on any attempt to use real fees other than the fact the new 'buyer fee' is generally a bit lower than the old seller fees were.)

I don't know if eBay add the fee onto postage as well, whereas fees before were based on the item price AND postage so sellers had to factor that in too.

RFW

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I don't know if eBay add the fee onto postage as well, whereas fees before were based on the item price AND postage so sellers had to factor that in too.

They're bound to, otherwise they'll end up with sellers loading the selling price onto the postage again.

Spoonie_Turtle

RFW said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I don't know if eBay add the fee onto postage as well, whereas fees before were based on the item price AND postage so sellers had to factor that in too.

They're bound to, otherwise they'll end up with sellers loading the selling price onto the postage again.

Interesting point, though maybe Simple Postage is intended to prevent that.

dinosaur66

for private sellers just to show what a business seller has to pay by comparison

 my ebay shop fee is £3 a day /10% selling fee /20% vat on this / 30p per sold item fee plus 6p vat /free postage to compete with million plus sellers and private sellers //regulatory operating fee per sale/income tax / national insurance class 2/national insurance class 4 /vat/ and of course we have to find an item to sale to try and make a profit on it.

daddyelf

dinosaur66 said:

for private sellers just to show what a business seller has to pay by comparison

 

And don't forget listing fee's if you go over your allowance or 2nd categories, also international fee 1-2%, (if selling overseas) along with optional upgrades, promotion of items etc (if used)

But I suspect you get the £10 packaging voucher, which buys pretty much the square root of nothing!

prowla

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

That's a bit like saying VAT isn't a tax because we pay the price we see when we go to the shops.

But has VAT stopped anyone buying stuff? 

I doubt it, but there are (legal) ways of avoiding VAT, including duty free, company purchases, going elsewhere.

With eBay the option will be the last of those.

99.9% of population don't do either of things for 99.9% of their purchases. I'm not sure how you can go elsewhere to not pay VAT? 

I'm also not sure where else the buyers will be going, fees elsewhere are much higher than 4% which is included in the price regardless of who pays it. 

If the buyers go straight to China then they'll wait longer and have less protection. 

Ultimately if you want to buy a 1987 Argos catalogue you are probably going to have to buy it on eBay... 

Of course I'm not saying it's for everyday purchases for the 99.9%.

But eBay purchases tend not to be for everyday items.

Examples of "elsewhere" include:

• If you want to avoid UK VAT you can buy abroad; as an example, the Swiss do that sort of thing, popping across to France for their shopping.
• Choosing someone who will take cash-in-hand for jobs.
• Checking for things of Freecycle rather than buying is another way (and very MSE!).
• Choosing to buy a used car from an individual rather than a dealer.
• Buying smaller items from abroad which fall below the import thresholds.
  

So yes, there's a number of ways where people have gone elsewhere (than a VAT-charging supplier).

Anyway, the assertion was that the compulsory eBay fees are a buyer's tax and VAT was given as a tax which is an example which is included in the purchase price.

Spoonie_Turtle

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

prowla said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

prowla said:

So, it's really an eBay buyer's tax.

Not really, we still pay the price we see, and we still get to choose the maximum we're prepared to pay for an item.

That's a bit like saying VAT isn't a tax because we pay the price we see when we go to the shops.

But has VAT stopped anyone buying stuff? 

I doubt it, but there are (legal) ways of avoiding VAT, including duty free, company purchases, going elsewhere.

With eBay the option will be the last of those.

99.9% of population don't do either of things for 99.9% of their purchases. I'm not sure how you can go elsewhere to not pay VAT? 

I'm also not sure where else the buyers will be going, fees elsewhere are much higher than 4% which is included in the price regardless of who pays it. 

If the buyers go straight to China then they'll wait longer and have less protection. 

Ultimately if you want to buy a 1987 Argos catalogue you are probably going to have to buy it on eBay... 

Of course I'm not saying it's for everyday purchases for the 99.9%.

But eBay purchases tend not to be for everyday items.

Examples of "elsewhere" include:

• If you want to avoid UK VAT you can buy abroad; as an example, the Swiss do that sort of thing, popping across to France for their shopping.
• Choosing someone who will take cash-in-hand for jobs.
• Checking for things of Freecycle rather than buying is another way (and very MSE!).
• Choosing to buy a used car from an individual rather than a dealer.
• Buying smaller items from abroad which fall below the import thresholds.
  

So yes, there's a number of ways where people have gone elsewhere (than a VAT-charging supplier).

Anyway, the assertion was that the compulsory eBay fees are a buyer's tax and VAT was given as a tax which is an example which is included in the purchase price.

Nope.  Not any more.

Also buying stuff abroad, haven't you paid VAT on the travelling to get there and back (flight, train, fuel, or any other method)?  You'll probably have paid EU VAT or other local sales tax on the item anyway.

It would be a bizarre hill to die on, trying to avoid specifically UK VAT.