eBay "Buyer Protection Fees" (New charges for buyers from private sellers) - Details just recieved

prowla

The ironic thing about the buyer having to pay a tax buyer protection is the selling of counterfeit goods on eBay.

I'm currently in conversation with eBay about listings of counterfeit goods:

• I reported counterfeit items.
• eBay responded with their generic "We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.  This determination was made by a customer service agent."  dismissive auto-reply.
• I signed in and chatted with an eBay agent and pointed out precisely why the items are plainly counterfeits (not least they are stamped "Made in USA", the seller labelled them as made in Japan, and they are actually made in China!).
• The agent said they would escalate the matter and I received an email of the conversation.
• The item(s) stayed up.
• I called eBay and spoke to someone; they asked me to send proof; I told them they already had that from the chat so they looked at that and said they would investigate.
• I said I can't trust eBay listings if they continue to allow counterfeits.
  
• A day later and the main item I discussed is still listed.

So, would a buyer be happy paying for "protection" if they receive a counterfeit item but eBay decide it is OK?

daddyelf

That is precisely why ebay have the money back guarantee.

Ebay will always tell you that they never see the items in question, which is true (there are too many of them!). Its the same with another area - stamps there are many users selling counterfeit items from China. Unfortunately ebay's AI is not that intelligent. It sometimes seems to take an eternity to get counterfeit items removed, and it usually is only repeated reports from different people that seem to have any affect on the matter.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RFW said:

I don't know why you wouldn't have a business seller account if you are a business. Even if it was legitimate to be registered as a private seller on Ebay, there's no way to grow a business by being a private seller.

There is thread on the eBay forums from a few months back where a seller is sort of named for using a private account as a business (surprised it didn't get pulled) and it looks as if they registered as a limited company towards the end of last year.

Some posts on the eBay forums mention private accounts with tens of thousands of sales. 

I think for the average buyer they really don't know, they are mainly buying from eBay rather than the seller, the Money Back Guarantee covers them regardless and a lot of people just shop on price.

Since they made the fees free I can see why a business would use a private account and once the competition start and use that advantage to undercut do you then have to join in?

Come Feb 4% is nothing compared to 12-15% on a business account. I sold something this morning for £12.99 with the 2.4% standard ad fees (don't use pay per click) the total fees were £2.42 which is 18.6% of the total. 

I use a business account as there doesn't seem to be much demand on eBay for what I'm selling so only get the odd sale here and there so might as well do things correctly but could very easily get away with a private account, the volume would never get picked up by eBay (and as noted before income is all declared).

The lack of upfront cost is no doubt a draw as well, 25 listings is £100 a year and whilst that is nothing for advertising I think there's a lot of people just earning beer money, possibly don't even see themselves as a business. 

Ultimately eBay should have the same fees for everyone, those shifting volume should get discounts (I'm sure the branded companies on eBay do anyway but if you go back far enough Top Rated Seller discount on fees were as much as 40% for the top tier discount), it probably wouldn't hurt eBay's marketplace if they said everyone had to accept change of mind returns for a min of 14 days. Do they even need two different types of accounts? Probably not. 

dinosaur66

i am sure the top companies not only get discounts but massive discounts too  compared to us mere mortals

my biggest competitors  sell items for £2 that would cost me £3.99 to post plus item fee/p ebay fee /packaging/

price to buy it originally /VAT /busines tax / etc etc .

and they have algorithms that automatcially make there product cheapest on ebay

no way to compete with that / small sellers have to only list items they do not currently have in stock  or that they only have a few left of.

as to private sellers not being a business / i know people who are unemployed for years with 5000 plus feedback from selling.

i looked into my own account on ebay for some reason about a year ago /

ebay holds every scrap of data clear as day on us all and i presume hmrc

 

 it says date i joined in 2001 ./ how many actual sales i have done in that time which is double my feedback and actually to the penny the money i have taken over the last 24 years .

 i never new that kept track of you that much / albeit my naiviety in that the day i joined ebay i was 35 and had never used a computer before in my life and to this day never had a lesson / i have to go on you tube and follow instructions if i need to do anything out of the norm.

RFW

dinosaur66 said:

i am sure the top companies not only get discounts but massive discounts too  compared to us mere mortals

There are definitely corporate rates and different structures of fees. I doubt M&S would just be logging into Ebay and setting up an Anchor Shop. It's probably costs Ebay less to manage a transaction from a big company than a private seller.

jon81uk

soolin said:

I do understand the worry that some truly private sellers have about these changes, obviously is actually affects only a tiny minority of sellers overall, but that doesn't mean they can't feel concerned about the changes.

However we must remember that a) this doesn't apply to business sellers at all and b) the new fees (regardless of what they are called) are lower for the majority of private sellers than they were in September. The only sellers that will be negatively impacted are those private sellers who sell very low cost items where the 75p fixed charge represents a large proportion of the item's value. This could hit sellers of small items like stamps, postcards, coins etc that are selling off a lifetimes collection.  

Before the totally free selling was introduced in October I tended to sell things in bundles, when October hit I de bundled a few items as people seemed happy to pay £1.55 postage on an item worth £1.50-£2.50 or so, however from February 4th I suppose I will have to re bundle items just to get this stuff sold or else just accept it is no longer saleable and do a big charity shop drop. 

I do still have real concerns though that the amount of arm waving and cries of 'the sky is falling in' on forums, groups, facebook etc where sellers haven't actually bothered to read the announcement or have not understood it. A quick browse yesterday evening and again this morning shows posts from people still wittering on about how this will destroy their 'business' or what to do with the huge amount of say cosmetics or stationery they have on order at the wholesaler which will now be uneconomical to sell. 

Realistically private sellers paid fees for years and we've only had 3 months of free selling , lets not forget that. Yes I would prefer to be able to sell all my tat completely free rather than charity shop it, but we all must have realised it wasn't going to last for ever. 

Exactly, the main difference with the change is the starting price of low value items.

Previously if I listed something for £1.50, the 12.9% is 19p, plus the 30p fixed fee, so I receive £1.01. 
Do it on a 80% off weekend and the 19p becomes 4p, plus the 30p fee so I receive £1.16.
Now list it for £1.50 and I receive £1.50, but the buyer pays £2.31 (4% of £1.50 is 6p, plus the 75p fee).

So I could start the listing at £1.20 as thats about what I received after the eBay fees anyway (on an 80% off weekend), so the buyer then pays £2.00 but that is still a 50p increase to the buyer for that low value item.

I think as Soolin says, that may be the biggest change, there won't be anything starting below £2 anymore really.
Of course Businesses are free to as they get the 12.9% fee applied after, but I don't think it makes good business sense selling for less than £1 most of the time anyway, unless it is very small low value items

soolin

I agree about the logic of selling low cost items, on my business account when I decided to start downsizing the low cost/low profit items were the first to go. Time wise I don't want to spend even a fraction of time wrapping and packing items that are going to make me less than £3 pure profit - it is a waste of my time.I decided to go for slightly higher profit items and just sell less, yes I have decreased my income but I have a lot more time now to enjoy myself.

On my private account I was getting lazy and listing things just because they had a value 'to me' and I was loath to just charity shop them, so yesterday I had a bit of a clear out, removed a lot of items and just took them to a donation centre to be sold in charity shops, but have also started bundling a few other items rather than leave uneconomical items that realistically are just going to waste my time listing. I need the room in my house and the time more than a pound or two moneywise. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

RFW said:

There are definitely corporate rates and different structures of fees. I doubt M&S would just be logging into Ebay and setting up an Anchor Shop. It's probably costs Ebay less to manage a transaction from a big company than a private seller.

It's similar to a shopping centre with several big name department stores to draw customers in and the rest of the smaller benefit from the passing trade.

Hard to tell if eBay give them good incentives to join or sell them idea they'll benefit from being on eBay. I would say eBay need them more than they need eBay but can see some companies will find the presence on such a large marketplace to be attractive. 

dinosaur66 said:

my biggest competitors  sell items for £2 that would cost me £3.99 to post 

Yeah but they stick it in a plastic bag and it arrives smashed to pieces, they then try to fob you off and hope you'll accept 20% off. 

I rarely buy from them but did pick up a box set from one of the smaller "mega sellers" the other day, ETA is tomorrow, not yet dispatched, want to bet they don't have the stock? 

prowla

prowla said:

The ironic thing about the buyer having to pay a tax buyer protection is the selling of counterfeit goods on eBay.

I'm currently in conversation with eBay about listings of counterfeit goods:

• I reported counterfeit items.
• eBay responded with their generic "We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy.  This determination was made by a customer service agent."  dismissive auto-reply.
• I signed in and chatted with an eBay agent and pointed out precisely why the items are plainly counterfeits (not least they are stamped "Made in USA", the seller labelled them as made in Japan, and they are actually made in China!).
• The agent said they would escalate the matter and I received an email of the conversation.
• The item(s) stayed up.
• I called eBay and spoke to someone; they asked me to send proof; I told them they already had that from the chat so they looked at that and said they would investigate.
• I said I can't trust eBay listings if they continue to allow counterfeits.
  
• A day later and the main item I discussed is still listed.

So, would a buyer be happy paying for "protection" if they receive a counterfeit item but eBay decide it is OK?

daddyelf said:

That is precisely why ebay have the money back guarantee.

Ebay will always tell you that they never see the items in question, which is true (there are too many of them!). Its the same with another area - stamps there are many users selling counterfeit items from China. Unfortunately ebay's AI is not that intelligent. It sometimes seems to take an eternity to get counterfeit items removed, and it usually is only repeated reports from different people that seem to have any affect on the matter.

Well, they've set themselves up with a load of rules which they don't enforce; if the money back guarantee requires you to return the item at your expense then they're absolving themselves of any risk.

Incidentally, I re-read my emails and the notification said it was automated or AI.

We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence.

So, if they're relying on their automation algorithms (they call them "AI" - that's a laugh!!!) for a definitive answer, then the buyer could face an uphill battle trying to get a situation resolved.

Based on that I think (as a buyer) I'm going to park eBay for a while; they're about to start charging for a "protection" service in which I don't have faith.

thepaperman

Once upon a time sellers advertised at low prices but with very high postage charges. That was because eBay only charged fees on the item.

After a while it was announced that fees would be charged on the combined price plus postage charge. They has finally realised that they could make more that way, and stop the fee avoidance.

Next, they recommended making items freepost by including the postage into the advertised price so that buyers knew exactly how much they would have to pay, especially if postage costs changed dependant on the item value. Now, that's no longer a good idea as it would mean that the 4% fee would be on the postage charge as well.

How long before £20+ items are advertised for less than £1 but with exorbitant postage charges. Much lower fees for the buyer with the overall price nearer to what they would have paid previously with only the 75p fee to be paid. That's what they originally worked to eliminate. Are the listing tools going to include a fixed or maximum postage charge?

Personally, I've worked out that, on 'buy-it-now' items, I can reduce my asking price to how much I used to get under the old seller fee system (effectively by the 75p + the 4% fee), remove the freepost option and charge for the postage (with no 4% fee) as in the old days. At the end of it I will be getting the same amount I used to get and the buyer will not be paying any more than they have for a similar item in the past.

I'm sure it won't be long before eBay change the rules yet again!