MSE News: More energy deals with NO standing charges finally on the cards

molerat

QrizB said:

jeffuk said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Yes, I would. It would also encourage freight to move to electric HGVs which would also be a good thing. 

How does the range of an electric HGV compare to a diesel HGV?

The average range of the electric trucks we reviewed is 220 km, far lower than that of a diesel HGV. A typical diesel HGV can travel over 1,200 km on a full tank of diesel. This long-range, combined with a more established network of refuelling stations, is one why diesel vehicles have dominated the freight industry and it has been challenging for Electric trucks to HGVs.

The Electric HGV / Lorry Guide 2024 | Electric Car Guide

That's a red herring.

HGV drivers need to stop for mandatory rest breaks (every 4.5 hours, I think?). A perfect opportinuity to recharge the truck.

And good luck finding an HGV suitable charging point - they take a lot more charge than a Renault Twizzy !  My son in law's company has a small fleet of electric 40ft trucks and they are confined to local day time running, totally useless for the long distance and JIT deliveries.  The only place they can be economically charged is at home base overnight.

QrizB

molerat said:

QrizB said:

That's a red herring.

HGV drivers need to stop for mandatory rest breaks (every 4.5 hours, I think?). A perfect opportinuity to recharge the truck.

And good luck finding an HGV suitable charging point

They're coming.

https://www.gridserve.com/pressroom/gridserve-to-deliver-uks-first-charging-network-for-battery-electric-heavy-goods-vehicles-as-part-of-electric-freightway-project/

Marvel1

May work out better for me in gas, my heating at the moment only comes in for 1 hour in the morning.

Scot_39

Qyburn said:

When Ofgem published their options paper they stated that suppliers weren't allowed to offer a zero or reduced standing charge tariff which exceeded the price cap at any usage. So as illustrated in their graphics the increased unit rate could only be levied up to a certain point.

And anyone below the point at which the two meet creates a funding shortfall for the supplier.

Which will need higher prices to compensate for the fixed external costs at least.

Simple example - a consumer with usage at half the rate breakpoint would essentially pay only half their share of the c£330 SC - the fixed costs.

So who is going to pay their other £165 ?

Cap compliant doesn't mean fair.

Scot_39

badmemory said:

What is it they say - the more things change the more they stay the same.  Standing charges started because of the complaints about the 2 levels of charges as the standing charges were added to the first units of use.  Now we are going back to that because of the complaints about the standing charges.  They will gouge the same amount out of us whichever way they do it.

What they really need to stop is all the profits from ALL our essential services going abroad along with adding unmanageable debts so we are stuck with those too.

Govt policy which mainly operates over winter and voluntary codes stops cutting some of the most vulnerable off regardless of debt.

Govt or Ofgem policy essentially had recently stopped and revised policy makes it far more difficult to impose prepay on some of those in arrears - actually banning it for others  ( like over 75s iirc - maybe no bad thing given 100,000 more elderly forecast by Home Office to be in poverty by 2027 thanks to wfp cut).

Few other businesses are forced to continuously give away their goods with no realistic expectation of payment.

And those like retail who suffer non payment for goods losses - e.g. shoplifting - are not price capped - so can build it into their prices.

So just as we now not only pay via general policy costs to subsidise long term non payment,  that increased overall by c20% in April, due to the snowballing bad debt in recent years - again likely aggrevated by banning forced prepay - the additional and recently increased special allowance - £28 in Apr cap  - a bad debt levy on dd / standard credit cap rates.

But rather than  properly support some of the poorest households to be able to afford their heating costs via benefits - to avoid such debts - as above - the recent example of the govts WFP cut sees yet again policy only likely to further increase that debt problem.

Scot_39

jeffuk said:

MattMattMattUK said:

jeffuk said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Increase fuel duty by 10p a litre this year and 10p a litre every year after and add 10% duty to all ICE vehicles, 

Wouldn't that be a tax on the poor who can't afford an EV/don't have access to home charging?

It would be a tax on polluters, which is who we should tax. 

As I said, a tax on the poor who have no alternative. These could be people who need their cars for essential jobs such as care home workers etc. Until we have public charging stations that are the same price to use as home chargers it will be a tax on the poor. 

And worst of all, same tax rate.

Hone charge 5% vat, public charge 20% vat.

Even pay per mile for bev to replace fuel duty and the 20% vat on that fuel duty - wont remove that anomaly.

Hoenir

QrizB said:

jeffuk said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Yes, I would. It would also encourage freight to move to electric HGVs which would also be a good thing. 

How does the range of an electric HGV compare to a diesel HGV?

The average range of the electric trucks we reviewed is 220 km, far lower than that of a diesel HGV. A typical diesel HGV can travel over 1,200 km on a full tank of diesel. This long-range, combined with a more established network of refuelling stations, is one why diesel vehicles have dominated the freight industry and it has been challenging for Electric trucks to HGVs.

The Electric HGV / Lorry Guide 2024 | Electric Car Guide

That's a red herring.

HGV drivers need to stop for mandatory rest breaks (every 4.5 hours, I think?). A perfect opportinuity to recharge the truck.

Solve one problem that creates another. That's the problem with micro thinking. The entire issue needs to be driven at a macro level in a structured manner. 

Netexporter

Bendo said:

Netexporter said:

born_again said:

dealyboy said:

@born_again said:

dealyboy said:

I think this a positive move and look forward to the consultation next year. I know it won't happen but I would like the consultation to include what charges 'are/should be' the responsibility of the bill payer versus general taxation, leaving aside some of the charges themselves which are the result of policy.

Given the % of people who pay no tax.
Any utility costs should fall on the user. A simple you use you pay.

As I understand it a portion of the SC is used to subsidise 'green' or renewable energy construction/generation. I would prefer that to be from general taxation, as in the future it is anticipated that a lot of revenue may be gained from taxing the operating companies.

I do understand the point that a significant number of people are not direct tax payers, but in theory these are the poorest.

Good point.

TBH, there should be no subsidy, as they are now more often than not the main % of power supply. So should be profitable.

The greening costs should be on gas prices/SC, that's what causing the need to decarbonise. Then we have the ridiculous policy of gas prices determining the electricity price. If you want people to move to heat pumps, make gas more expensive.

A reasonable argument until you factor in most electric is generated in gas fired power stations.

Not any more. Renewables as a whole will overtake gas, this year, and it is a very close run race for wind, alone, to generate more than gas. We'd have almost certainly passed this milestone, long ago, if gas hadn't been kept at artificially low levels.

Ildhund

matelodave said:

Zero standing charge tariffs ... are of doubtful benefit to those who cant afford all this stuff and are probably living in rented accommodation possibly with less than ideal insulation and heating systems, and not ever so well off.
It really doesn't help those who are elderly or infirm or even just retired people who generally have to keep their places warm all day.

Well, that was a pretty accurate description of someone I know well, except for elderly or infirm would be elderly and infirm in his case. His electricity consumption last year was just over 1000 kWh. A penny on the unit rate would cost him £10 a year. His standing charge is currently £190 a year, which would buy him a couple of months'-worth of firewood.

Generalizations don't really help.

matelodave

Netexporter said:

Bendo said:

Netexporter said:

born_again said:

dealyboy said:

@born_again said:

dealyboy said:

I think this a positive move and look forward to the consultation next year. I know it won't happen but I would like the consultation to include what charges 'are/should be' the responsibility of the bill payer versus general taxation, leaving aside some of the charges themselves which are the result of policy.

Given the % of people who pay no tax.
Any utility costs should fall on the user. A simple you use you pay.

As I understand it a portion of the SC is used to subsidise 'green' or renewable energy construction/generation. I would prefer that to be from general taxation, as in the future it is anticipated that a lot of revenue may be gained from taxing the operating companies.

I do understand the point that a significant number of people are not direct tax payers, but in theory these are the poorest.

Good point.

TBH, there should be no subsidy, as they are now more often than not the main % of power supply. So should be profitable.

The greening costs should be on gas prices/SC, that's what causing the need to decarbonise. Then we have the ridiculous policy of gas prices determining the electricity price. If you want people to move to heat pumps, make gas more expensive.

A reasonable argument until you factor in most electric is generated in gas fired power stations.

Not any more. Renewables as a whole will overtake gas, this year, and it is a very close run race for wind, alone, to generate more than gas. We'd have almost certainly passed this milestone, long ago, if gas hadn't been kept at artificially low levels.

That may be nearly true but as its an average over a period it doesn't really show these renewables providing the energy we need when we need it.,

Solar doesn't really do it at night nor ever so well in the winter, not forgetting that there are long periods of high pressure when the wind doesn't blow (or low pressure when it blows too much) and we then need summat to take up the slack.

Some days we are importing more from France than we generate from wind. At this very moment (15:00 on 13th Dec 2024) we are getting 64% from gas and just 4.5% from wind and about the same from France.

What's gonna happen when Mr Millipede turns the gas off and leaves us all in the dark and cold and unable to charge our electric cars (or using our phones)

I for one am getting pretty cheesed off with multiple power outages, three this week already causing the router to keep rebooting, the phone to drop calls and having to reset the heating programmer timer. As far as I can see it only going to get worse before its likely to get better.