MSE News: More energy deals with NO standing charges finally on the cards

Spoonie_Turtle

QrizB said:

You could scrap the (electricity) standing charge for domestic properties and add it onto Council Tax, and at the same time inroduce a universal (electricity) service obligation. I can see that being equally unpopular!

What does this mean?

QrizB

Spoonie_Turtle said:

QrizB said:

You could scrap the (electricity) standing charge for domestic properties and add it onto Council Tax, and at the same time inroduce a universal (electricity) service obligation. I can see that being equally unpopular!

What does this mean?

Like this (this one's for telephony and broadband). In essence the DNO would be obliged to provide a connection to any property that requests one.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/telecoms-infrastructure/universal-service-obligation

Chrysalis

Scot_39 said:

Chrysalis said:

Qyburn said:

Chrysalis said:

I am not expecting them to do the way you describe, There will be higher unit rates on the zero version, and my suspicion is they will be considerably higher as a deterrent.  

No matter how much higher there'll still be people better off, second home owners, solar/battery and other ultra low users. So there'll still be a shortfall to be recovered by increased prices elsewhere.

There does seem bitterness from personal perspectives on it, which is how I interpret your comment, your concern is about a certain demographic getting a benefit from it rather than if the whole thing is workable.  I think it is fair to point out, what may seem a "natural" pricing to you, is not necessarily the case, different people have different point of views, e.g. there is an argument to be made, that moving variable costs to away from unit rates have to be recovered from somewhere and it ends up being the SC, basically the reverse of what you have just said.
The recent pricing model for SVR is quite different to historical levels, which is one of the reasons so many people got involved in it to try and get a correction.  Ofgem have even confessed to artificially raising the SC in recent years to unnatural levels to lower unit rates as they felt it was needed to help people with expensive to run medical equipment.

Link / source ?

If you took part in the consultation, you would know, when taking part, Ofgem provided a statement of reasons why the SC is set to what it is now, its in that statement of reasons.  They have mentioned it in public statements as well, but I would be searching for old news articles for that, the most recent source was the consultation.

Chrysalis

QrizB said:

You could scrap the (electricity) standing charge for domestic properties and add it onto Council Tax, and at the same time inroduce a universal (electricity) service obligation. I can see that being equally unpopular!

That would be an improvement, the policy costs would be correctly collected via taxation, and those on low income get council tax support.

debitcardmayhem

Part of the SC is to cover warm homes discounts, but of course those getting that will pay part of it back via SC.

GingerTim

Chrysalis said:

Scot_39 said:

Chrysalis said:

Qyburn said:

Chrysalis said:

I am not expecting them to do the way you describe, There will be higher unit rates on the zero version, and my suspicion is they will be considerably higher as a deterrent.  

No matter how much higher there'll still be people better off, second home owners, solar/battery and other ultra low users. So there'll still be a shortfall to be recovered by increased prices elsewhere.

There does seem bitterness from personal perspectives on it, which is how I interpret your comment, your concern is about a certain demographic getting a benefit from it rather than if the whole thing is workable.  I think it is fair to point out, what may seem a "natural" pricing to you, is not necessarily the case, different people have different point of views, e.g. there is an argument to be made, that moving variable costs to away from unit rates have to be recovered from somewhere and it ends up being the SC, basically the reverse of what you have just said.
The recent pricing model for SVR is quite different to historical levels, which is one of the reasons so many people got involved in it to try and get a correction.  Ofgem have even confessed to artificially raising the SC in recent years to unnatural levels to lower unit rates as they felt it was needed to help people with expensive to run medical equipment.

Link / source ?

If you took part in the consultation, you would know, when taking part, Ofgem provided a statement of reasons why the SC is set to what it is now, its in that statement of reasons.  They have mentioned it in public statements as well, but I would be searching for old news articles for that, the most recent source was the consultation.

The only mentions of medical equipment in the call for consultation (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-11/Standing Charges - Call for Input.pdf) are about the negative impact of raising unit rates on those who have to run such equipment.

I don't see where in the consultation OFGEM confessed to artificially raising the standing charge on the grounds you state? It would be pretty major news if they had!

MattMattMattUK

Chrysalis said:

QrizB said:

You could scrap the (electricity) standing charge for domestic properties and add it onto Council Tax, and at the same time inroduce a universal (electricity) service obligation. I can see that being equally unpopular!

That would be an improvement, 

It would be a retrograde step as all fixed network costs would be charged on taxpayers.

the policy costs would be correctly collected via taxation, 

I agree that the social policy costs should be funded via taxation, things such as the WHD, grants etc. however I do think that grid modernisation should be funded from energy users.

and those on low income get council tax support.

I also disagree with council tax support, it is a flawed system the same as housing benefit, social tariffs etc. The solution is not to break a functional and rational system, it is to fix the broken system. If base line benefits are too low for people to be able to afford to heat their homes then increase benefits. But treat the recipients like adults, not with multiple discounts that either baby them or create cliff edge situations for those moving into work.