MSE News: More energy deals with NO standing charges finally on the cards

Scot_39

FlorayG said:

Years ago I had a no standing charge on my gas because it only supplied hot water. My bill was about £5 per month. When the 'no standing charge' option was removed and I had to start paying it my bill jumped to £16 a month.
In my current house I have solar panels and in summer my imported electricity is close to zero but I'm still paying a bill consisting entirely of standing charge
People should be offered the choice

You  need the grid to export power.

You need the meter to measure it.

Neither are cost free.

And for the disruption of dumping excess power onto the local distribution network, at times of often low domestic demand e.g. mid afternoon - arguably you should pay more than just the standard standing charge.

superkoopauk

nrmsmith said:

I can’t understand why these low / no SC tariffs are so difficult to quickly reinstate?  

10 years or so ago tariffs existed where you could pay no SC and a slightly higher unit rate, we had one then but for some reason they have all disappeared since then….,

Ofgem have to consult and then design a new no SC price cap model.  Still would of thought July would have been possible

debitcardmayhem

Scot_39 said

Neither are cost free.

And for the disruption of dumping excess power onto the local distribution network, at times of often low domestic demand e.g. mid afternoon - arguably you should pay more than just the standard standing charge.

Oh and should get 99.99p /kWh for exporting between 1600-1900 perhaps scot

Scot_39

nrmsmith said:

I can’t understand why these low / no SC tariffs are so difficult to quickly reinstate?  

10 years or so ago tariffs existed where you could pay no SC and a slightly higher unit rate, we had one then but for some reason they have all disappeared since then….,

Politicians - supported by all major parties iirc - brought in tariff simplification - bill c2011/12, implementation c2014 ??.

The main howl of complaints started from the doubling of the electric SC in last 2.5 years.

So from a purely technical cost basis, over £100 of what has been identified as fixed electricity network costs by Ofgem  - has been shifted from unit to electric sc.

And these growing costs have to be paid - either by unit costs or standing charge or a mix of both - if costs to be met purely via bills.

And a significant part of the current cost is again govt imposed path to net zero generation - via unreliable (inconsistent) wind and solar..

Either per customer via SC  - on what is  currently viewed by Ofgem from a purely grid cost perspective - fair basis - or what previously was an unfair cross subsidy basis by heavier users carrying the burden. 

Arguably part of last review, was an attempt at placing the decision on funding for any required subsidies for poorest households back on govt as largely a political decision.

And showing the unintended risks.
One set of Ofgem costs in recent interim report showing what  the impact would be if as many were demanding a simple switch back to unit rate loading - no such funding forthcoming. 
The heaviest losers by far being those with electric heating  - even if using same kWh as those on gas to heat similar property to similar temps.
And with net zero plans within a decade or so - people need to remember - many more of them will be far heavier electric users than currently.

Scot_39

debitcardmayhem said:

Scot_39 said

Neither are cost free.

And for the disruption of dumping excess power onto the local distribution network, at times of often low domestic demand e.g. mid afternoon - arguably you should pay more than just the standard standing charge.

Oh and should get 99.99p /kWh for exporting between 1600-1900 perhaps scot

If thats the going wholesale market rate - and you can guarantee you can supply it day in day out- summer and winter - and have customers locally to consume it - then arguably yes.

Thee are already dynamic export rate tariffs irc.

But commercial renewables on CFD get an indexed price  from a max at 12p in 2015 auction for fastest delivery, min c3.7p 2019 auction iirc at pre indexed prices from c2012 baseline.

A price drop trend reversed with Miliband et al signing off on a massive - c60% - price rise for wind in latest auction.

A historic price mix that currently is once again well over market rates.

So the CFD cost in raw wholesale pricing alone adding iirc £37 ex vat/c1.45p inc vat to every kWh unit consumed at df dd cap rates and 2700kWh tdcv. in the Q3 cap, and despite a near doubling in uk gas spot rates per therm - since Feb lows - still adding c£29/c1.1p /kWh right now.

Let alone the grid and distribution network costs to deliver it.

Even after last years 11% inflation doubt thats anywhere near 99p wholesale.

dealyboy

@born_again said:

dealyboy said:

I think this a positive move and look forward to the consultation next year. I know it won't happen but I would like the consultation to include what charges 'are/should be' the responsibility of the bill payer versus general taxation, leaving aside some of the charges themselves which are the result of policy.

Given the % of people who pay no tax.
Any utility costs should fall on the user. A simple you use you pay.

As I understand it a portion of the SC is used to subsidise 'green' or renewable energy construction/generation. I would prefer that to be from general taxation, as in the future it is anticipated that a lot of revenue may be gained from taxing the operating companies.

I do understand the point that a significant number of people are not direct tax payers, but in theory these are the poorest.

Scot_39

Core Policy costs saw an inflation busting c20% price rise this year.  Up from £157 to £188 ex vat in Apr for Q2.

And that excludes two other major costs - the debt special - - old Covid £11 upped to £28 for DD / standard credit cap - and the prepay levelisation.  Another £38 ex vat total in Q2 cap for DD and credit customers.

So arguably an extra £68+ vat combined.

And that £188+28+10 = £226 nearly a third of the raw tdcv wholesale energy cost of £720 at the time.

£226+5%/£1690 cap at time = 14% of the total cap

bristolleedsfan

Scot_39 said:

nrmsmith said:

I can’t understand why these low / no SC tariffs are so difficult to quickly reinstate?  

10 years or so ago tariffs existed where you could pay no SC and a slightly higher unit rate, we had one then but for some reason they have all disappeared since then….,

The main howl of complaints started from the doubling of the electric SC in last 2.5 years.

Tripled in North East region, nearly tripled in some other regions.

MeteredOut

Flugelhorn said:

yes the unit price will be higher but if you aren't using much / place is empty or unused then it may turn out to be cheaper. I have a holiday flat I use at weekends only - in the summer during the week all that is on is the fridge / freezer - and gas consumption is minimal for months - consumption overall is low and hence such a tariff may be better. 

That is such good news that people like yourself, who are living on the breadline and struggling with the cost of living crisis, will finally get some respite thanks to all those campaigning to roll the standing charge into the unit price.

born_again

dealyboy said:

@born_again said:

dealyboy said:

I think this a positive move and look forward to the consultation next year. I know it won't happen but I would like the consultation to include what charges 'are/should be' the responsibility of the bill payer versus general taxation, leaving aside some of the charges themselves which are the result of policy.

Given the % of people who pay no tax.
Any utility costs should fall on the user. A simple you use you pay.

As I understand it a portion of the SC is used to subsidise 'green' or renewable energy construction/generation. I would prefer that to be from general taxation, as in the future it is anticipated that a lot of revenue may be gained from taxing the operating companies.

I do understand the point that a significant number of people are not direct tax payers, but in theory these are the poorest.

Good point.

TBH, there should be no subsidy, as they are now more often than not the main % of power supply. So should be profitable.