PCN entered the car park twice to turn car around but did not park there

nutmegandwalnut

Hi,

Thank you all for the responses. They are very helpful and I am grateful for the ongoing assistance.

Thorndorise said:

I love this letter, very much putting on the record of your concerns and ongoing attempts to get this sorted.

I've had a look at the location, and maybe I'm missing something, but which car park is it that you are supposed to have turned around in - as there don't appear to be any car parks nearby other than the public one opposite (assuming google maps is still up to date) - OR, is it the service road around the back of the property? Either way, are you certain that IHG own the land that Parking Eye are managing.

Don't get me wrong, landowners can be a) numpties b) naïve and c) clueless - it does seem that this manager is clear that they don't have anything to do with the land....sorry if I've missed something obvious (totally aware that if they do they are jointly and severally liable).

Unfortunately Google Map is not up to date. The car park in question is located around the back. Please see below.



I found the following on companies house perhaps do you think that these individuals are the landowners?
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12147847

Coupon-mad said:

I'd get your MP to please write in support of your complaint (2 letters):

1. ask ParkingEye to check their ANPR images from that day and the positioning of their camera and to confirm that they will now drop this unfair PCN;

2. ask IHG who contracted ParkingEye and why the landowner has not told PEye to cancel the PCN because this was just an innocent (and understandably now very angry) local person turning their car round.

They'll both have to answer the MP.

I have wrote another email to follow up and awaiting a response.

Since last time I have received another letter from DCBL.

I have a number of questions if you could kindly provide some assistance on them.

1) Assuming that they take this court, I was wondering what I should do now to prepare for this?
2) What are likely outcomes, will it be an easy win and how has it been done with other individuals on the forum?
3) What evidence would you recommend I gather?

Thank you in advance.

Thorndorise

Thanks @nutmegandwalnut - Good pics, and I would agree, that looks 100% like it's on the Hotel's land.

Interesting link you've provided, I wasn't aware that this was a thing - but it 'looks' like Holiday Inn Fleet is a franchise? Now owned by these folk - therefore it seems that the mangers of that hotel are dismissing responsibility when it is clearly their land - and seemingly outright lying to you about accountability. - If they are not the owners, then they certainly will know who is (or are [playing silly beggars)!

I meant to ask, do you have a pic of the T&Cs sign, that may help possibly....as others have said, it is almost never that the PPC own the land - they are always agents of someone else, and that 'looks' like the Holiday Inn.

nutmegandwalnut

Hi,

Thank you for the quick response.

Thorndorise said:

Thanks @nutmegandwalnut - Good pics, and I would agree, that looks 100% like it's on the Hotel's land.

Interesting link you've provided, I wasn't aware that this was a thing - but it 'looks' like Holiday Inn Fleet is a franchise? Now owned by these folk - therefore it seems that the mangers of that hotel are dismissing responsibility when it is clearly their land - and seemingly outright lying to you about accountability. - If they are not the owners, then they certainly will know who is (or are [playing silly beggars)!

I meant to ask, do you have a pic of the T&Cs sign, that may help possibly....as others have said, it is almost never that the PPC own the land - they are always agents of someone else, and that 'looks' like the Holiday Inn.

Here is the sign.


I have also asked a neighbour. They confirmed that they have received a PCN before for the same situation. However he said he paid it off and does not have the original PCN letter unfortunately, so this seems to have occurred before in this area. Can this provide support for a potential case in court?

For the September PCN I have also received the following response for the appeal:

"""

Dear Sir / Madam, 

We are writing in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on 03 September 2024 at 07:44, at Holiday Inn Express Fleet car park. The terms and conditions of parking at this car park are clearly outlined, with ample signage displayed throughout the area. Previously,  we  contacted  you  to  request  additional  evidence  in  support  of  your  appeal concerning  the  parking  event  above. 

Our  records  indicate  that  we  have  not  received  a response or any further evidence from you, and the Parking Charge remains outstanding. As we are not in receipt of any evidence to confirm the parking terms were not breached, your  appeal  has  been  unsuccessful.  If  you  wish  to  have  your  case  independently assessed, please be advised, there is an independent appeals service (POPLA) which is available to motorists who have had an appeal rejected by a British Parking Association Approved Operator.

Contact information and further information can be found enclosed. See also www.popla.co.uk As a gesture of goodwill, we have extended the discount period for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence. A  payment  can  be  made  by  telephoning  0330  555  4444,  by  visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk/payments  or  alternatively  by  posting  a  cheque/postal  order  to Parkingeye Ltd, PO Box 117, Blyth, NE24 9EJ.

Please ensure you write your reference number on the reverse of any cheque/postal order so the payment can be allocated.  By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute  resolution  service.  As  such  should  you  wish  to  appeal  then  you  must  do  so  to POPLA, as explained above.

Please  note,  if  the  Parking  Charge  was  issued  in  Scotland/Northern  Ireland,  only  the driver can appeal to POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals). If  you  have  received  this  correspondence  via  email,  please  allow  24  hours  for  our systems  to  reflect  the  discounted  value  before  making  a  payment  via  our  automated payment line or website. 

"""

What are the recommended next steps, as I have received a POPLA code? If the September PCN is defeated will that support my defence with the January PCN?

Thank you in advance.

Fruitcake

Most if not all "branded" hotels around the world are privately owned and run as a franchise under a brand name. It's a bit like Rolls-Royce cars that are manufactured by BMW in a manufactory owned and run by BMW, but the brand name, Rolls-Royce, is owned by Rolls-Royce plc.

In the OP's case, the hotel appears to be privately owned and run, but has a licence from IHG to operate and use the Holiday Inn name. If they did not have a licence from IHG (or any other internationally renowned brand), they would be an independent hotel, and therefore not get the coverage that the big names get. If someone searched for, "hotels near Farnborough," then IHG, Hilton, Best Western, Ramada etcetera would be at the top of the search results, not a local independent or small chain brand.

Whilst it may hurt the IHG brand name to a small extent, it is the hotel owners (if they own the car park, which they may not), and car park landowners who are responsible for the issue with their agent.

By the way, the OP's letter from the IHG UK CEO is a template, and word for word matches the one I got when I complained about Parkmavern operating at the Filton Holiday Inn Express.

Nellymoser

I have a number of questions if you could kindly provide some assistance on them.

1) Assuming that they take this court, I was wondering what I should do now to prepare for this?

3) What evidence would you recommend I gather?

Start with reading NEWBIES post 2 and Template defence announcements thread

2) What are likely outcomes, will it be an easy win and how has it been done with other individuals on the forum?

Have a look at Umkomaas thread 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations#latest

Thorndorise

I know I'm flogging a dead horse potentially - but I would be inclined to send those pics of the car park to the GM at the hotel, and simply ask him if that land is owned or leased by the business that runs the hotel.

Not 'who is the land managed by' as they will answer PE, but who does the land belong to - can't see why they cannot answer that - in fact I'd go so far as to give them a multiple choice q, IHG, WADI group or other (please state the other's name) - then you'll find out the jointly liable party - can't hurt....or land reg?

Cos personally I think the hotel is spinning a clever lie, in that they don't actually ever state they don't won or manage the land, only that they didn't issue the 'fine'

LDast

Stop worrying about any court claim. Any claim issued through DCB Legal, as long as it is defended, any defence will do, even a nursery rhyme, will end in a discontinuation. 

Fruitcake

For a definitive answer, you could pay the Land Registry to determine who owns the car park.

An online request for ownership of a specific address costs around £3. If the land has been registered digitally, then a search return only takes a few minutes.
If the address is not known, a search using a map costs about £10, but takes a bit longer.

Coupon-mad

How did you get on contacting your MP to give it the clout needed to cancel the PCN?

DW190

Freehold is available