EV Public Charging Rip Off and Chaos

MattMattMattUK

ThorOdinson said:

MattMattMattUK said:

ThorOdinson said:

XRS200 said:

Is electricity cheaper in France? 

EDF is nationalised and the government makes sure they keep the price low. In fact they just had a price cut.

France built the nuclear power plants from taxpayer funds, they took the view that long term investment was worth it, our government did not.

ThorOdinson said:

We get absolutely fleeced in this country.

The reason that the French can afford state built, owned and operated nuclear power is because they pay far higher taxes than we do in the UK, it is also the reason for better healthcare, education, pensions, roads, policing etc. In the UK 55% of households receive more in cash benefits than they pay in taxes, more than 95% of people are a lifetime burden on the state. We have the largest tax free allowance in the EU, we have the lower starting rates of taxation. In the UK the bottom and middle third of earners have the lowest effective rate of income taxation in the EU, the top third have the fifth highest. The reality is that taxes are too low in the UK for everyone, but especially the bottom and middle third of earners, that is why we cannot have nice things, that is why we cannot afford to invest, that is why we have a huge debt and deficit. 

Funnily enough French nuclear plants are a much hated drain on the public purse. They turned out to be extremely expensive, and French customers are often in the position of subsidising them instead of being able to buy cheaper energy from other sources.

They might be hated by some, but they have supplied France with reliable energy security for decades and will continue to do so for decades more.

ThorOdinson said:

Now they are reaching end of life as well, so need expensive maintenance, monitoring, and eventual replacement.

Most are currently undergoing a life extension program which is adding an initial ten years with the option for a further three ten year blocks provided materials respond as expected. The French have also built a DGR which deals with high level waste and replacement is ongoing with the new reactor designs.

ThorOdinson said:

The only reason to keep building nuclear is to provide material for weapons, ensuring that France has an independent nuclear arsenal for the foreseeable future.

Total straw man argument. France (and the UK and USA) have more Plutonium than they could ever need and highly enriched Uranium does not require nuclear reactors and again, stockpiles in France and the UK are already high enough to provide for all strategic defence needs for at least a hundred years.

The reason is for a reliable, secure, domestic electricity supply. The French are also adjusting their generation plan, previously and currently they use plants in load following which makes nuclear plants inefficient but going forward they are going to use new plants at max capacity which increases efficiency and lowers cost per kWh. They are also only building the new plants in coastal locations to remove the issues causes by low river water levels and overheating of outflow into rivers which meant that they previously had to throttle plants. 

MattMattMattUK

Nobbie1967 said:

born_again said:

Arunmor said:

I'm just waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share for using the roads, instead of moaning they can't get their KWs for 7p! 

Personally I'll stick to ICE.

More than happy to pay VED from next year.
We all use the roads so should pay. 
I think the most upset will be all the ICE that have been paying £30 a year & will not have to pay the same as everyone else.

Still get my kWh for 7p. 😍
Wonder what 30-10 will bring in terms of a fuel duty rise?

Why do you think those ICE drivers paying £30 a year will have their tax increased? Not read that anywhere.

The same amendments that impact EVs in terms of emissions categories will also impact low emissions ICE vehicles. It is not abolishing a category specifically for EVs but for very low and zero emissions vehicles, which will include those small engine ICE vehicles.

facade

Arunmor said:

I'm just waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share for using the roads, instead of moaning they can't get their KWs for 7p! 

Are you living under the illusion that Road Tax & Fuel Duty somehow pay for the roads?

It would be more correct to say that you are waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share of taxes for owning & driving a vehicle

The owning tax is happening in April with the changes to VED. Implementing an equivalent tax to Fuel Duty is currently giving HMG & HMRC nightmares, but you can rest assured that they have some of the finest minds in the World on it, and will manage it before long.

born_again

Nobbie1967 said:

Why do you think those ICE drivers paying £30 a year will have their tax increased? Not read that anywhere.

Been discussed in another thread & this is what the outcome was. Equality for all cars.

Hoenir said:

Judging by the way the majority of EV's are driven. The increased cost of tyre wear is going to come back to bite many hard. 

Not from the reports on EV users tyre life. Many are well into 20K before new tyres required.

Just the same as any car, it's the right foot that is the biggest issue on tyre wear.

ididgetwhereiamtoday

born_again said:

Nobbie1967 said:

Why do you think those ICE drivers paying £30 a year will have their tax increased? Not read that anywhere.

Been discussed in another thread & this is what the outcome was. Equality for all cars.

Hoenir said:

Judging by the way the majority of EV's are driven. The increased cost of tyre wear is going to come back to bite many hard. 

Not from the reports on EV users tyre life. Many are well into 20K before new tyres required.

Just the same as any car, it's the right foot that is the biggest issue on tyre wear.

I managed 30,000 miles on 1 set of tyres in a Nissan Leaf and I drove it like a 1990's hot hatch.

lordmountararat

If you use a fast charger you have to pay 20% VAT as opposed to 5% charging at home. The cost of providing the infrastructure for the fast chargers is very high and this has to be recovered in the price an EV user pays at the 'pump'. I don't resent paying 80p a KW on the rare occasions I need a fast charge. It costs very little to charge at home but if you have to rely on fast charging then an EV is not for you, imho, especially if you have to pay for it yourself.

Grumpy_chap

MattMattMattUK said:

Nobbie1967 said:

born_again said:

Arunmor said:

I'm just waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share for using the roads, instead of moaning they can't get their KWs for 7p! 

Personally I'll stick to ICE.

More than happy to pay VED from next year.
We all use the roads so should pay. 
I think the most upset will be all the ICE that have been paying £30 a year & will not have to pay the same as everyone else.

Still get my kWh for 7p. 😍
Wonder what 30-10 will bring in terms of a fuel duty rise?

Why do you think those ICE drivers paying £30 a year will have their tax increased? Not read that anywhere.

The same amendments that impact EVs in terms of emissions categories will also impact low emissions ICE vehicles. It is not abolishing a category specifically for EVs but for very low and zero emissions vehicles, which will include those small engine ICE vehicles.

Except the currently announced changes do not alter the tax banding for cars prior to April 2017 (I think that is the correct date) so there will be ICEs at £30 (or less) VED for a few years to come yet.

Arunmor

facade said:

Arunmor said:

I'm just waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share for using the roads, instead of moaning they can't get their KWs for 7p! 

Are you living under the illusion that Road Tax & Fuel Duty somehow pay for the roads?

It all goes into one big pot so yes in a way it does go at least in part to pay for the upkeep of the roads, trains, buses, ferries etc.

user1977

Arunmor said:

facade said:

Arunmor said:

I'm just waiting for the day to come when EV drivers pay their fair share for using the roads, instead of moaning they can't get their KWs for 7p! 

Are you living under the illusion that Road Tax & Fuel Duty somehow pay for the roads?

It all goes into one big pot so yes in a way it does go at least in part to pay for the upkeep of the roads, trains, buses, ferries etc.

Yes, but so does every form of taxation, so you can't just look at fuel and vehicle duty.

ThorOdinson

MattMattMattUK said:

ThorOdinson said:

MattMattMattUK said:

ThorOdinson said:

XRS200 said:

Is electricity cheaper in France? 

EDF is nationalised and the government makes sure they keep the price low. In fact they just had a price cut.

France built the nuclear power plants from taxpayer funds, they took the view that long term investment was worth it, our government did not.

ThorOdinson said:

We get absolutely fleeced in this country.

The reason that the French can afford state built, owned and operated nuclear power is because they pay far higher taxes than we do in the UK, it is also the reason for better healthcare, education, pensions, roads, policing etc. In the UK 55% of households receive more in cash benefits than they pay in taxes, more than 95% of people are a lifetime burden on the state. We have the largest tax free allowance in the EU, we have the lower starting rates of taxation. In the UK the bottom and middle third of earners have the lowest effective rate of income taxation in the EU, the top third have the fifth highest. The reality is that taxes are too low in the UK for everyone, but especially the bottom and middle third of earners, that is why we cannot have nice things, that is why we cannot afford to invest, that is why we have a huge debt and deficit. 

Funnily enough French nuclear plants are a much hated drain on the public purse. They turned out to be extremely expensive, and French customers are often in the position of subsidising them instead of being able to buy cheaper energy from other sources.

They might be hated by some, but they have supplied France with reliable energy security for decades and will continue to do so for decades more.

ThorOdinson said:

Now they are reaching end of life as well, so need expensive maintenance, monitoring, and eventual replacement.

Most are currently undergoing a life extension program which is adding an initial ten years with the option for a further three ten year blocks provided materials respond as expected. The French have also built a DGR which deals with high level waste and replacement is ongoing with the new reactor designs.

ThorOdinson said:

The only reason to keep building nuclear is to provide material for weapons, ensuring that France has an independent nuclear arsenal for the foreseeable future.

Total straw man argument. France (and the UK and USA) have more Plutonium than they could ever need and highly enriched Uranium does not require nuclear reactors and again, stockpiles in France and the UK are already high enough to provide for all strategic defence needs for at least a hundred years.

The reason is for a reliable, secure, domestic electricity supply. The French are also adjusting their generation plan, previously and currently they use plants in load following which makes nuclear plants inefficient but going forward they are going to use new plants at max capacity which increases efficiency and lowers cost per kWh. They are also only building the new plants in coastal locations to remove the issues causes by low river water levels and overheating of outflow into rivers which meant that they previously had to throttle plants. 

It's just such a colossal waste of time and money.

Hinckley Point C is taking 20 years to build and will provide 3GW. £30-40bn.

For comparison China installed 609GW of renewables and nearly 30GWh of battery storage last year.

You could argue that maybe back in 2010 when they started work on it they didn't know renewables would ramp up so quickly. A terrible lack of ambition and foresight, but common feelings... And Britain isn't good at infrastructure, we can't even build a high speed rail line. Oh yeah, China built more of those than the rest of the world combined has while we were deciding to cancel ours.

I'm actually okay with the idea of nuclear power... If you pay for it. I don't want to be covering those ridiculous costs, but it's hard to avoid.